12 KW Off Grid Unit Pricing

gross or net 12kW. Thats just the inverter, what about everything else. Is this Pv (most expensive there is for power) or wind.

pv complete unit 24 - 7 - 365 1 pannel on the roof

wow, make electricity at night time!!!

So you gaurentee that your system will generate 12 kw/hour for 24-7-365, or do you mean I can get 12 kw-hr every day on the average, or do you mean the peak kW is 12, which means I get about 60 kW-hr worth $7/day and I pay $12,000 cash up front and save $2500/year?

no 12 KW per hour 24 hours a day no problems

so the answer is yes

Magnacoaster, you still haven't explained what you propose as a charging source. You talk about th epower company having limited capacity - by implication you are saying your system would not rely on utility power.

Secondly why so much inverter power? I know I can run a normal household on a 4kW inverter.

Mywife's uncle lives off-grid and that is what he has. But he has to use a diesel generator to recharge if PV and wind is not sufficient. In his case, the power company was asking over $30,000 to run a power line out to his homestead. That was 10 years ago; by now the price would be more like $50,000.

Most of my designs use 3kW for a modest home and if air conditioned I use 6kW or at most 9kW of inverter power but then the battery bank gets so big the charging system is huge.

$1.00 per watt is about average for inverters for the past eight years that I have been designing inverter systems for off grid applications Usually I can buy for less but then end up charging my customers at the $1 per watt rate.

Big question. What do you use for recharging the battery bank needed to support a 12kW inverter. To be practical you need to be able to recharge in less than half the time you normally discharge the bank in. Any slower than that and the end user complains.

Again, pardon my ignorance....what would be a decent description of a battery array that would support a 12KW inverter generating the 12KW for a twenty hour duration?

To support a 6kW inverter I spec around 800 - 900 Amp hours at 24V If the system is 12V you need at least 1600 amp hours.

To support a 12kW inverter the assumption is you need that much power so you need at least a 2000 amp hour bank. After all why spec an inverter way bigger than needed. Size the bank smaller and you run out of oomph to soon. The only systes I saw with only half an hour run time on the battery bank was for a chain gun emplacement. When I commented on this to my friend who designed the system, his reply was half an hour is ten times as much as needed. The gun empties the magazine in less than a minute. And the gun boat haven't got room to carry any more ammo..

Keep in mind that most inverters can surge to 2X their continuous rating and toroidal designs can surge to 3X their normal continuous rating.you design for average no tpeak loading as you would for rotary gensets.

I was at a trade show last week where one vendor was promoting an 8kW inverter system. He came over to our booth to ask about our charging systems. His inverters were being promoted as a silent construction generator replacement. Great but where do you find a charger that can deliver 200 - 400 amps?

He was tripping the show building breakers and leaving many display booths in the dark. - real popular!.

If you take longer than 6 hours to recharge, it isn't practical.

But a faster rate quite often exceeds the capacity of the power source. My solution is to design custom DC gensets (gasoline or diesel) that can deliver 300- 400 amp at the system voltage.

PV to deliver that kind of amperage would cost a fortune.

we have a unit that can charge the bank as its being used it will have a 400 amp + charge capacity. so we do not need to have a big battery bank at all.

What is this unit that charges and what drives it? If you do not use a large battery bank, then your charging source runs almost constantly if your inverter is delivering 12kW.

While this is feasible it is not practical for a home. I had to use this approach for military patrol boats. With no room for a seperate genset we used the 400 amp plus charging capacity of the propulsion engines to drive the 6kW of inverter power. But as soon as the engines stop, so does the inverter power because the house battery was only sufficient to drive a few lights and the radios. In a typical home application where you do not have propulsion engines, you would need a seperate generator engine to drive the charging. At present cost of fuel this now amounts to approximately 60 cents per kilowatt instead of the 8 - 10 cents per kilowatt charged by a hydro - electric power utility. If you are looking at the Mid-west with coal fired power plants the cost is more often around 15 cents per kilowatt. Still a lot cheaper than self generated by diesel generator. Forget about gasoline engines. Until you get into mega watt sized generator plants spark igintion engines are not price competitive.

no we caharge it on the fly so you never run the pack down pack is based on usage plus 50% more then needed

The problem with single home systems is that they are not going to pay for themselves in a decent time (if ever) until oil is above $300 per barrel. If you want to succeed, you need to look at community sized system producing a few hundred of KW or more. We make inverters in the 100KW to 1.5MW range and the price is a fraction of dollar per KW. Once you have a large system, you get more for your dollar and can afford the maintenance by a competent technician. This would extend the benefits to all the people who cannot connect wires together. It would also be easier to integrate a few production technologies together in the hundreds of KW range.

It would be very interesting to develop an all DC concept for the community of the future. With today's technology, it would be more efficient than an AC local grid. Only a small inverter would be used to connect to the grid to buy or sell energy as needed.

Aren't you ignoring the fact there are still thousands of homes that are too far removed from neighbors to make a "community system" feasible? Its the economies of scale argument that has led us to the situation we now have. Everything is now so expensive as a capital investment cost that no one can afford it.

we hope to reach this market as it needs to be targeted but also need to build units in these countries as to make sure they have work so that they can pay for the units. we also like that fact we can reduce the oil and coal burning for power as well thius will help reduce the carbon foot print.

i googled just inverters and inverter/chargers and you can buy 12 KW for under $8000 all day long, as low as $3000 with just and inverter.

Yep! Which is why I wondered what is so special and magical about this particular one. A fully loaded 12000 watt inverter fed from a 12V battery bank would draw 1000 amps. Even at 24V the DC draw is still 500 amps. Hardly your average DC power system. If the DC battery was 48V then the full load current becomes only around 250 amp, which is more like a normal system usign conventional off the shelf components.

Once you get above 400 amps, the special disconnect switch and the protective fuses required for a safe design becomes problematic. In fact using off the shelf components will require electrical boxes that are often larger than the inverter. At that point the practicality and convenience starts to diminish. Only special applications can justify the extra cost incurred to meet code requirements. We scrounged a 45kW 3 phase inverter from a hospital back up system when the hospital was renovated. The cabinet stands 6 feet high and weighs a ton. The battery bank weighed two tons.

Given the original post which expressed a desire for people to go green, I am wondering about the experience of the designer of that system. This particular12kW inverter at $1 per watt doesn't strike me as being practical, affordable, or realistic as a "go-green" and off-grid solution. For 12 grand I can come up with a much bettter system.

So Richard you are still trying to make new friends ?

For you all, we concluded in the overrunnity forum that Richard is not making any real working system. Maybe he built an power inverter, but in no way he built a charging system based on permanent magnets (free energy). So the 24 hours charging system is surely a big lie.

Are there any winners from your forum?

Hello, I'm the same guest as the previous post.

I'm not sure to understand what you ask. Sorry, it may be because I'm french.

I'm just wondering if there is any practical, documented, overunity devices or applications?

our 12 k will be released in the middle of sept.

set the price to 15,000.00 includes all the

equipment batteries and inverter and head

wlso should get some press here in october if not before hand

Richard