Electric Vehicle (EV) Project

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Thank you guys for your input ...I will check it out ... any other ideas are welcome

Specially regarding the electric motor I should use

You might talk to:

http://www.worldclassexotics.com/Electriccarconv.htm

I am partial to Porsche and will probably use a 996 because it is a modern car with modern crash and safety features.

Anyway, give the guy in the link a try. He seems to have a line on a lot of donor cars (it's his business).

Keep us informed as you go. I would love to hear how you are making out!!!

If you have cash, Factory Five Racing produces a 1700 lb chassis for about $20K. Just add your choice of drive train.

You are in San Diego? There should be some "Pick a Part" type dismantling yards nearby. You can walk around and look at what type vehicle is suitable. However, buying a whole rolling chassis from a dismantler may be problematic simply due to DMV regulations (I'm guessing.)

Some other resources:
Recycler.com 
Hemmings Motor News 
Pomona Swap Meet 

FYI: Auto Trader does not automatically list online everything in the printed edition.

Frankly, you could either contact a manufacturer who CKDs there cars for contstrucction overseas, buy a kit car or attend the Motor Vehicle auctions for a car thet has been dumped and towed by council. You only need to junk the engine and transmission. The best motors available are English however I understand Briggs and Stratten have a licence to make them in the states. they are quite small and their biggest can produce 20 KW. Personnaly I suggest you use awd sedan or wagon such as Subaru make. thats a total of 80 Kw at the wheels whichis even more in torque terms

I would start here and follow the recommended links from the members.

Lots of work on electric and highmileage and hybrid cars. http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/ben-nelsons-electro-metro-build-thread-848.html

Then these

http://www.electricdrive.org/ http://www.triumphspitfire.com/goodwin.html

Then http://ww.motherearthnews.com and search their electric car threads - One Opal there.

One of my friends is doing this to a pickup - 60 mile range - made a deal with the church to plug it in when he comes to town. :)

Luck

rcb

The

It might be best to purchase a late model small car and simply replace the engine with an electric motor, that way you can still register and insure it easily.

I googled the following: fiberglass car body shell here are the results: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=fiberglass+car+body+shell Click on this search results link and feast. Lotsa luck!

And I should have included these links

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Green-Transportation/1979-07-01/An-Amazing-75-MPG-Hybrid-Electic-Car.aspx

Have fun

rcb

There are a large variety of kit cars available. If you google "kit car" you'll find all sorts. You're going to need something very light weight. It's going to be a lot of work but everybody has to have a hobby!

Fiberfab used to offer a number of body styles to mount on VW Beetle chassis. I don't know if they are still in business, but you might want to check them out.

Thanks for the tips

Another tact, buy the car you like and sell the motor when you pull it.

Does anyone know where is the best place to get car shell

Check out kit car sales, kit car classifieds somebody may be disheartened and want to cash out (:

Better yet! Build a hydralic driven car! See link.

http://www.designnews.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA6549294

Nice to see a re-run of the work Vincent Carman did in the 1980's Air actually has some advantages - same algorithms - lighter weight

Nice Technology.... However it still needs a gas motor... I am trying to test building something that completely does without the need of any hydrocarbon burning ....

I know that many would say ...but it takes burning Hydrocarbons to make the electric power that you would charge the car with... I am hoping that the percentage of electrical power made through the use of hydrocarbons will decrease with time ...

Hey ... I may just one day use a solar and wind hybrid system to charge batteries at home to charge the car.

Bedini schoolgirl motor - charging one side while drawing on the other -

Youtube videos - Plans at www.panaceauniversity.org

on my list to build - a friend is building an electric truck - :)

rcb

GA - The lead acid batts aren't bad many EV'S are heavy and do well too.

Depending on price, availability, range, etc. this could be a real winner. Details are somewhat sparse. I suppose they are still sorting a lot of it out. That 15 to 25 mile range is a little poor but I suppose that will get better as battery technology improves.

GA - nice steer

rcbondsr your two links are first rate - However, hats off for the PHEV retrofit conversion site link!

This Poulsen kit, if they make it to that phase, is a winner. Poulsen has put his finger on the 15 - 30 mile average suburban travel distance problem and a solution for those who cannot afford two vehicles or don't want to give up the comforts of their preferred existing personal transportation. Anyone with a front wheel drive vehicle might now battery about in their local suburbs for shopping or work from an electric grid plug-in charged battery system and leave their engine neutral and at high idle for Air Conditioning, headlights, windshield wipers and power braking OR gen up the engine and dynamically charge the batteries if they are exhausted. Put this system on older, mechanical brake, gear and clutch light car or mini pickup and you really get a low or no gas burner! What a concept!

Well, all that glitters is not gold!

First, I seriously doubt the claims they make. The device is simply an assist and it is not likely to be very meaningful when you work the numbers.

Adding 300+ lbs to a car will be required and the that only yields 14 additional hp, barely enough to offset the weight. Also, the advantage of that system is only useful at highway cruising on level road. The torque supplied by the motors is not going to be useful for stop and go traffic. Think about the kind of driving you do? Even on the highway you need to speed up and slow down for traffic and most areas have hills.

Finally, you have to put 6 extra batteries somewhere, so there goes some trunk space. Six batteries will not give you much range or power.

As a comparison, my friends conversion removes the engine and other components and bolts an electric motor to the transmission. He adds almost 500 lbs in motor and batteries and gets about 20 miles between charges running strictly electric. That car is a Toyota MR2, not your normal 4,000 lb sedan.

It looks good on paper, but the cost of the system will take a long time to pay for itself in the real world.

That's interesting ! Would you have any more information on your friends conversion of the MR2? What type of batteries did he use? I think that with a different battery pack your friend can increase the mileage range... Did he try adding some Lithium-ion batteries? instead of the Gel or lead-acid type? I know those are expensive but the power density may be worth it. I would love to hear about that project

This is what he has. He is going to update it at some point.

www.freedomformula.org

The link is at the top of the page for the MR2 conversion.

This guy is a sharp engineer and has spent a lot of time working out the details, so there isn't much left to chance.

Yes, a higher density pack would be nice, but current cost for Lithium Fe is pretty high. If more breakthroughs arrive and the volume sales increase there is hope of cost reduction. However, Lithium has all kind of issues that add complexity to the design, such as temperature and charging. Still, all of this is in the infancy of development and that makes things a little clunky and expensive, but it is exciting to see and be a part of a quite revolution being born in the industry.

Think about this:"(www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/atv.shtml) shows that an internal combustion engine (ICE) only has an average efficiency of 12 % despite that the maximum efficiency for a gasoline engine is 35 %. The main reason to that is that a 200 kW ICE operates at very low loads (10-20 %) almost all it's life where efficiency is about 10 % instead of 35 %, also consumption at standby/idling corresponds to 17 %.
A steam engine has the opposite efficiency characteristic, that is, maximum efficiency at part load (10-20 % load) and lower efficiency at full load. Complete simulation indicate 32 % efficiency at part load for a steam engine, that is 3 times lower fuel consumption for a 200-300 kW engine operating during normal conditions. The steam engine system doesn't consume energy when standing still."

By building a plug-in EV hybrid with a small steam engine to run a generator to keep the batteries charged as needed you save about 80% of the fuel used by an IC car. Because the car is powered only by the grid and the steam engine, the fuel efficiency when the steam engine is running is better than if using an IC engine to charge the batteries, saving even more fuel.

"The burner in a steam car, when properly designed, can be, and has been, as environmentally clean as the 2001 model gasoline powered cars. This, without any form of special pollution reducing gadgetry, none at all, it is inherent in the modern burner design.

The paramount advantage is that the fuel particle is burned at almost atmospheric pressure, bringing the oxides of nitrogen down to the lowest possible level, if actually present at all. The residence time of that fuel particle in the burner is long, resulting in complete combustion. The unburned hydrocarbons can be non-existent. This has been proven over and over again.

Yes, there is CO2 produced. That occurs when any carbon based fuel is burned and one cannot trick Mother Nature." So using a steam engine to produce the electricity to recharge the batteries is cleaner too.

Pass this along to anyone interested in EV hybrids, because this idea will increase the range and save fuel and prevent pollution.

Adding 300lbs would not have any demonstrable effect

bwire - you are thinking in terms of stationary or marine steam installations perhaps. I am thinking in terms of about half that. A little extra weight is a great gain in range and convenience without any great gain in fuel use or pollution or expense. To do the same as a pure EV is more weight and more expensive than a Tesla 2-seater.

Don't reject the idea because you don't know about steam power, check out the Green Steam Engine site, look up Lysholm Expanders and even look at the Tesla Turbine. Lots of power in small packages and a Lamont boiler would be about the size of a hatbox.

I am thinking in terms of about half that. A little extra weight is a great gain in range and convenience without any great gain in fuel use or pollution or expense.

Somehow I must have fumbled because I am in absolute agreement with your statement.

Anonymous Hero,

Did you read from the same site, you must have missed a lot, read it again. There is really interest stuff there don't skip or skim through.

I did before and I just did again, and I still really don't like the idea for the reasons I cited in post #34.

However, I sent the link to two experts in the field and I will see what they have to say tomorrow. I think they will have a similar opinion, but I'll let you know.

Cool!

His opinion pretty much echoes what I stated.

"An interesting proposition for those wanting to throw away five grand. I am guessing that most people looking for a hybrid would rather trade in for a brand new hybrid than invest that much money on their existing POS car. Not to mention, 5 large buys a lot of gas even at today's prices, so much so that the potential savings of the hybrid system won't likely recover the initial investment."

The irony is at least 25% of commuters could effectively use mass transit, 40% could use a bicycle and 20% could car pool with and overall saving about 60% of transportation costs to the commuter directly.

It's the price between living in a free society and one that is very closely controlled and socially regulated.

Thank you.

My sketch book has plans to replace the wheel unit with integrated air motors. I truly never thought about putting them on the outside. I think this could be a long term win with the larger motors they are talking about.

I plan to build a Bedini unit sized for my friends conversion system and try to regenerate the batteries with a auto switch system - That is right behind getting my engine prototype finished. :) ( the list is getting shorter )

rcb