No extension: Windows XP D-Day arrives Monday, June 30

Orpheuse, thank you for the news. I have XP on one desktop and my notebook, and it functions very well. The newer PC has Vista (new word for CRAP) installed so none of my AutoDesk products will work on it. I am seriously considering to remove the Vista and install XP.

AutoDesk refuses to provide support for its products as many PC's migrate to Vista-just buy the update or the new software. But who should have to do that? I thank you again for the news, as that tells me that a deevolution from Vista to XP will not be fruitless.

Best Regards,

Ing. Robert Forbus

Upgrading to XP RC3 from Vista is our bread and butter right now.

/Ari (Orpheuse)

So what the hell does XP's going away mean for LANs in the offing? Just how compatible will XP-Vista (intercommunication) be, if at all? With about 3800 invested in XP machine and software, I need to add peers or clients of what I already have. And to run software built for XP on the Vista machine (such as UPS client software).

Also, it's difficult to know just what the Vista products are, based only on branding ard product puffery. What is the Vista (brand) market "equivalents" as between XP Home and XP Professional, respectively...and their various iterations.

Finally, what is the reasonable discount one should expect on the obsolete (XP) product...for the software itself, or a machine with XP installed? I would guess 50% ot more for the software, 35% or more for the XP system (at 32-bit). Sound reasonable? Or too low?

Save your time and money; switch to Linux Ubuntu.

Talk about crap! That is the biggest load of crap to be foisted off on the public since they were trying to sell cow magnets to improve gas mileage

Well, one direction is Enterprise Software, which is when you pay a company a monthly fee in order to use software you don't own.

Server 2008 is past due out. Win Xp Sp2 RC3 Pro can log in either to Server 2003 or Server 2008 - BTW only XP Pro can log in to a Domain. That would XP Pro and XP Home Edition Pro. Standard Xp SP2 RC3 can only log onto work-groups.

The successor(?) to XP, Windows 7, is also approaching. Don't Ditch your XP discs too fast. In fact download the Server editions for XP SP2 and XP RC3 and save them to your desktop. Then burn them onto a C/D so you have your XP disk and your updates in one place.

Microsoft, and others, will be 'maintaining' XP for at least a decade. We're not dead yet.

/Ari (Orpheuse)

This is just off the press at ZDNET as are articles about Windows 7, Windows Live and several other issues. Check it out. Maybe read up on W7. Just follow the link below.

/Ari

Goodbye XP, hello Midori.

Posted by Mary Jo Foley @ 4:53 am

http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1466

June 30 is the day that Microsoft begins phasing out Windows XP by no longer providing copies of the operating system to PC makers and retailers for preloading on new machines. It's also a good day (thanks to a recent New York Times opinion piece) to start looking ahead to what comes next — after Windows.

That answer could be Softie Eric Rudder's mysterious "Midori" project.

First, the back story: As San Jose State Professor Randall Stross notes in his Times article, "Windows Could Use a Rush of Fresh Air," Windows has become big and unwieldy. That's why Microsoft has been working for the past several years on reducing dependencies within Windows. And that's what MinWin, the slimmed-down Windows core that Microsoft's Core team has built (which supposedly won't be at the heart of Windows 7) is all about.

Microsoft also has been investigating for the past several years what a non-Windows-based operating system might look like. That project, which recently hit the 1.0 milestone, is code-named "Singularity."

This is how the Singularity team described its mission:

"The Singularity project started in 2003 to re-examine the design decisions and increasingly obvious shortcomings of existing systems and software stacks. These shortcomings include: widespread security vulnerabilities; unexpected interactions among applications; failures caused by errant extensions, plug-ins, and drivers, and a perceived lack of robustness. We believe that many of these problems are attributable to systems that have not evolved far beyond the computer architectures and programming languages of the 1960's and 1970's. The computing environment of that period was very different from today…."

As Microsoft officials have said, Singularity — a microkernel-based operating system written as managed code — is for research purposes. Microsoft has no plans to commercialize it.

But what Microsoft hasn't discussed publicly — which I address in my Microsoft 2.0 book — is that Microsoft is working on a derivative of Singularity, code-named "Midori," which could end up seeing the light of day somewhere down the line. From Microsoft 2.0:

"There's a seemingly related (related to Singularity) project under development at Microsoft which has been hush-hush. That project, codenamed 'Midori,' is a new Microsoft operating-system platform that supposedly supersedes Windows. Midori is in incubation, which means it is a little closer to market than most Microsoft Research projects, but not yet close enough to be available in any kind of early preview form.

"What's also interesting about Midori is who is running the project. One-time Gates heir-apparent Eric Rudder is heading up the effort. Midori is being incubated under Chief Research and Strategy Officer Craig Mundie's wing. 'Everyone under him (under Rudder on Midori) is a multi-year vet, has a super fancy title, and is going back to their roots and writing code like they probably did in the old days,' one Microsoft tipster told me.

"When and how Microsoft will roll out Midori is still a mystery. But it sounds like the company thinks the project is serious enough to dedicate a considerable amount of time/people/resources to it."

I tried asking the Singularity team about Midori earlier this year and got a very nervous looking "no comment" in response.

Anyone out there have any more to share on what Midori is?

Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 20 years. Don't miss a single post. Subscribe via Email or RSS. Got a tip? Send Mary Jo your rants, rumors, tips and tattles. For disclosure on Mary Jo's industry affiliations, click here.

"So what the hell does XP's going away mean for LANs in the offing?"

It makes it more difficult for the end user. Vista is an unmitigated disaster. We will have to wait and see what Windows 7 is going to be, but I have my suspicions.

I think we will be seeing true home networks, with servers and domains and the like. and we will be in the best position to take advantage of that. If you start with Server 2003 and then move up to server 2008 you'll be sitting in it catbird seat

As to the price on XP, that will stay the same at about $100.00, with some sort of come on for buying Windows 7.

Thanks for your post, any other questions?

/Ari

Orpheuse,

Hi, #3 again. Thanks for the info. Here's some related info from a conversation with Dell. According to her:

I. XP should have no problem fitting in Vista LAN, and vice versa.

II. Vista, like XP and 2000, is an NT-based OS.

III. Asked why Dell had cut off XP with a clearance sale a few days before the Microsoft deadline--she explained, that for manufacturers (and presumably Window's vendors as well) its not a matter of what Microsoft produces, but what Microsoft authorizes (i.e., is willing to license to end user)!. It's not as if Microsoft produces software media for each machine sold...rather, the mfr (in this case Dell) could continue loading XP (and producing XP system discs), but to do so would violate allotments from Microsoft, and result in machine purchasers being sold unlicensed/un-licensable computers. (I believe it would be a reasonable presumption that the same applies to Windows (CD) retailers and vendors. Since software is shelf-displayed only in virtual form (empty packages or "empty" images) one would expect (assuming honest retailers/vendors) a store to withhold/refuse to sell/be out of XP software product at the point at which Microsoft "permission" to sell XP ends. This suggests that anyone who purchases XP in the near future, does not do so without risk. It also suggests that one should think of XP's final/ultimate obsolescence as coming sooner rather than later...even in view of continuing "support" for that software.

IV. As to "representations" respecting continuing duration of MS support for XP, I was cautioned against reading too much into that. Beyond fulfilling contractual obligations, much of what has fallen in the "support" category (things like security patches, driver upgrades, ....) will, again, cease sooner rather than later. "Support" will by and large become "archival" in nature...what's there now will remain (perhaps 2010 or later); but support updating will not continue very long, if at all. (So it seems safe to say, that MS together with their computer-mfg proxies have decided it will be the Vista way or the highway.)

On an unrelated note, looking at (playing with) Vista laptops (notebooks) for the first time today in the store, it occurred to me that a blunder of major proportion (an unexpected but not surprising oversight) must have attended the development of Vista, namely: that Vista must have been developed on desktops/workstations only...with result that, for lack of testing on portable platforms, Vista seems largely incompatible for use on a notebook...unless the user is willing & able to use keyboard and keyboard "short cuts" only, or interface a mouse...to avoid (what would be) the (yes, that's right, the) comparative slowness and awkwardness of using the touch pad (chasing dialog all over the screen) to keep program "conversations" going. I wondered if it might not be this tedious-user-interface (this seeming disregard for human factors) aspect of Vista that has led to so much resistance from Windows veterans and other non-novitiates. Of course, it could be that faster pointer acceleration setting would have helped on the 5 machines I looked at; that's something I'll have to look into further before making the leap to a notebook.

I've never heard of chasing your program text under Vista. I suggest you check Knowledge Base on that or talk to your friend at Dell. Keep me posted on that.

XP will fit on your LAN however only XP PRO can join a Domain, that's one of the differences. Again regarding XP standard, and Home edition won't host a lan. It would have to be XP PRO and XP PRO HOME EDITION.

The more you know about Vista, the more you will hate it. Still, being where we are we have to get to know it and get comfortable supporting it and pray that Windows 7 will be better.

Good post. Stick around.

/Ari

(Orpheuse)

I've never heard of chasing your program text under Vista. I suggest you check Knowledge Base on that or talk to your friend at Dell. Keep me posted on that.

Thanks again, Orpheuse. Just to clarify the "chasing" thing...

Normally the touch pad would confer advantage over mouse in that hands stay on keyboard (and less risk of mouse induced repetitive-use injury to joints/nerves). What I found was the need to repeatedly swipe the touch pad--most annoying and time wasting--in order to bring pointer and navigation buttons together. It could be just me but, I found this to be unsatisfactory to the point that I would consider interfacing a trackball...unless resetting the mouse (finger swipe) acceleration can make the pointer move the distance of the screen in one (or not more than two) finger stroke. Since these were store models (and since it could be a matter of factory default setting which favors those needing or content with slow pointer response), I will report back with whatever explanation the laptop mfr can provide.

Hi Orpheuse,

I have not read much about Vista, as I have XP. I have read that it is difficult to find applications that will run on it? Kind of short sited of Bill Gates not to see this obvious flaw. What is wrong with Vista apart from the lack of app'?

And why even think of putting yet another product (Windows 7) out to market when Vista has hardly taken a breath yet?

I thought from the 'hype' Vista would be amazing and companies would be tripping over themselves to get app' to work on it. If Vista was supposed to be so brilliant, why have windows 7 in the background ready to take over from it? And, I wonder just how much in cold hard cash has or will be going up in smoke because of the Vista fiasco?

babybear

I found the answer to the 'rumor' that Vista won't run certain software. The answer I received was that Microsoft was 'holding back' to try to encourage software manufacturers to fabricate more software for Vista.

I can't verify any of that but it does make sense in a Microsoft sort of way.

Take care, Baby bear,

/Ari (Orpheuse)

http://windows7news.com/2008/05/31/microsoft-is-learning-from-the-past/

Orpheuse, when I spoke about W7 to Dell, they simply said "it's Vista, too. Anyway, the link above gives some idea about what's driving MS . . . not so much software but hardware developers by my read.

Dell had no firm opinion about the mouse pointer acceleration thing, saying only they test on both desk and lap tops, but allowed as how it might, indeed, be possible that MS overlooked testing of Vista (human factors) on other than desktops/workstations. The agent I was working with said she preferred mouse on a laptop/notebook anyway, in preference over the touch pad. When the new unit arrives I'll see what I can find out about the mouse pointer response setting.

I know for a fact that XP RC3 can log on to just about any server. Vista is finicky. Microsoft didn't do enough Beta testing so some software runs like a champ and some won't run at all. I haven't found something that runs just well enough to FUBAR the system. I will be finding that out at the end of the week. That's when my new Vista laptop (an Acer) will arrive. I'll post my expierence here.

I wouldn't dump my XP that fast. I've found companies still running Windows Server 2003 (SP2). What you need is a bare bones system, a couple of 80gig or larger drives, and 2gig of RAM. The RAM is criticle. You might also try this site:

Vista_Brute_Force_Keygen

Spend some time reading "Vista for Idiots", when I need to get up to speed fast I always start with that series. It's technical enough to get you started fast and simple enough to give you a better understanding of Vista's strengths and weaknesses.

Unless Windows 7 turns out to be the Holy Grail XP ain't going nowhere. XP is one of the most robust OS's I've ever seen come from Microsoft. I was happily using 98SE until 2 years ago when I switched to XP HOME. I'm very pleased with it. If I didn't have to support servers I wouldn't switch, but I would study Vista, just in case. Besides, we'll finaly have a 64 bit OS. A jump like that is gonna cause a lot of ripples.

Try logging in with a Vista system and take it from there. Believe me, I know what a pain this is but it comes with the territory.

/Ari (Orpheuse)

As long as you don't want or need the extra capabilities between a 32-bit chip (the Intel Pentium line) and a 64bit chip, the Intel core duo, then you are fine.

I assume you are running some proprietary software that was designed for 98SE. The person/company that wrote that sofware is probably out of business, and you are tired of the speed of your machine.

With the information I have now, you will either have to find software that is close to what you're using or find a programmer to rewrite the code, if you have it, to run on XP.

They are no longer producing XP but they will be supporting it for decades. The other blunder(?) that Microsoft made was in cutting production. I would have kept production going and raised the price.

Good luck and thaks for posting.

/Ari (Orpheuse)