Bio Diesel in Freelander 2 2008

The question is do you want to keep your engine warranty or not? if yes, do what the manufacturer says........you have no other choice really.....

The damage that Bio Diesel can do to certain types of (older type) seals is extensive.

Paying someone to strip large parts of the fuel system down to replace them all is a very expensive business.....

Buying a vehicle, without knowing if it can run on 100% Bio Diesel or not is in your case rather stupid I feel, if that was always a requirement, or did you decide on Bio Diesel AFTER you had bought the vehicle?

You should more carefully pick your vehicle to suit all your requirements, before purchase, not after.

Hi Andy

The mileage we do renders the importance of whether we can or cannot run the car on biodiesel insignificant.I have a buddy who runs a haulage outfit and of course it would be important to him to be able to use it even as a supplement.I just wondered if in return for running his biodiesel plant I could reward myself with a cheap source of fuel.I appreciate your comments but you have not really answered the question.

Kind REgards

Martin

I actually posed a question that you did not answer - is the Engine warranty important for you or not?

The answer to this (only you can answer!) will tell you exactly as to whether or not you can run more than 5% Bio Diesel or not!!!

The problem being that if you use a higher percentage than allowed, this will let the manufacturer "off the hook" for a great many different engine and fuel problems......as they have good ways of telling how much of any particular type of fuel was actually used....

Nobody can say if your engine will fail or not for any particular reason or when!!!

No

Then burn whatever you wish.......and pay for the consequences if the seals are BIO degradable (as many are!)

Hi Martin

I have been running my '93 Discovery 2.5 TDi on B40 (40% biodiesel) for a year now, with no problems. My actual consumption is 10l/100km, much like when I used fossil diesel. It does not smoke as much, the fuel tank is cleaner and the exhaust smells like a fish and chips shop. I would guess that the seals are OK on your car (as most newer cars have better seals). I have not heard of any problems with users of B40 in Australia. Lubricity of biodiesel is actually better than that of fossil diesel, so the injection system should not wear faster. My fuel system is cleaner since using B40. There are various manadatory fuel mixes being used in Europe and the States, and the manufacturers will use suitable seals on all cars instead of have one type of seal for one country and another elsewhere...

The picture could be different if I used B100, so be careful. There are many forums on the web regarding running your Landy on Biodiesel so I suggest you Google some and then take a decision of what you want to do... it has worked for me, my carbon footprint is 40% less than before - pretty good for a 2ton 4x4...

regards

Rolf

Their are two major problems youhave to ocercome, though so will your client if he wants to use biodiesel. I suggest you look up journeytoforever.com and read the articles. there are two major concerns with Biodiesel, One, it collects water which needs to be filtered or removed as soon as possible. That normally means extra water filters/seperators in the fuel line. In bigger systems I'd reccomend installing an electric circulating pump which continuously filters the fuel back into the tank. The wter of course will stuff your injection equipment which is an expensive repair. Second, is the component compatability - particularly the rubber compounds in the system. This is most so with modern common rail injection systems like on your car. the manufactureres test the components against all available fuels however as Biodiesel tends to be made by small independent operators with varying formulas they cannot gaurantee the components won't melt in your particular fuel. Harley Davidson had problems a few years back where the plastic fuel lines started melting from the effect of toluene added to the fuel to boost octane.

Bottom line is build a great filtering system to keep sludge and water out and you should be ok, if the engine doesn't chemically dissolve.

There are also problems with biodiesel on cloud point too. You can't use high quanities of bio because it will turn to a solid in your tank whe it gets cold. There are CHEMICAL additives that will help this, but, you defeat the "purpose" of biodiesel, the additives are energy intensives compounds from petroleum.

finally biodiesel costs more to make than regular diesel.

Andy is right your engine will run on bio diesel but the price you have to pay in terms of maintenance of fuel injection system will make you cry reason your engine Fuel injection system and combustion chamber is engineered to work on specific fuel with special focus on emissions i don't know in your country whats being accepted emission standards Bio-diesel will generate hell lot of NOx and you are asking for trouble with emission regulatory authorities in addition to killing your engine

crm

Thanks

Martin

Are you trying to say that not all cars run on 100% biodiesel?!! Who knew!...I thought that was a STANDARD in vehicles today and didn't bother to find out...don't I feel rather stupid. But I'm sure the person who posted this blog was a little smarter...just maybe..

Calling someone stupid only makes you look bad.

You should re-read what I wrote, it has nothing to do with whether hes got a brand new or secondhand (but still in warranty) Landrover. Its actually just asking how important the warranty is for him. Nothing more nothing less......

I guess a 2008 model still has warranty in the USA? or not maybe!

In Germany, it will have at least warranty for 2 years by law. Some models of vehicles have 3 years (most Japanese cars), Porsche even more on certain parts......

If the warranty on the engine was completely unimportant for him, then he can try to fuel it with water if he so wishes.......much cheaper!!!!

I have re-read what you wrote and it has nothing to do with how important the warranty is for him. I think the 2008 has bearing upon your remark concerning fuel system seals when using bio-diesel.

Some manufacturers are still not quite "up to date" in this area, at least that is what the impression you get when you read the guarantee on the subject.

It would appear that Landrover is one and VW is another for example......others I do not know about.

VW differentiates between the seals (they say they have had good modern seals for about 7 years) and the fact that the guarantee does not cover using Bio Diesel!!!

If you can make sense out of that, please try, I cannot!!

Basically it boils down to the fact that if you fill up with Bio diesel (ever!) they do not warrant certain parts anymore.....

Landrover may be very similar....only 5% different in fact!!

So if he wishes to retain the full engine warranty, he must follow their rules.....

My brother in-law has 2004 VW diesel warranted for 100% bio-diesel??

The warranty may be different in different countries, the German one has this strange "Tic" and the two parts of the warranty with regard to Bio Diesel are in two different clauses, not in the same one as a simple person like myself would have thought!!!!!

I only caught on when I phoned VW to ask them......I had only found one of the clauses at that point, they directed me to the others.....I also found out on that particular VW (1998 VW Sharan) that the "Standheizung" (a special auxiliary heater that burns Diesel) was not Bio proofed at all as it came from another manufacturer!!!!!

But that was not the reason given for the first two clauses I mentioned, that was a further clause referring only to that heater!!!!

DUUUUHHHHH!!!!!!!

I had a truck the manufacturer warranted the drive line parts but a sensor which if failed would not be covered could cause damage of other components which of course then would not be covered. Yad-a-yad-a.

Exactly!!!

It seems they all do it, you have to have eyes in your A**E to catch everything today!!

The common injection pumps are lubricated by the same oil.Even when a good quantity of fuels works almost the same (take for case heated heavy fuel oil ),there are many differents values to take in the bill and viscosity is an important and only one of them.Probably if you don't care about warranty you don't care neither as much you rests the injection pump time of life.

Biodiesel is a fuel made of the sterification of fatty acids, which are obtained from seeds and animal fats. Therefore, the quality of biodiesel is differente from one manufacturer to another, unless they meet the ASTM specification, these fuels has risks for engines. This is the reason why so far only B20 and B5 fuels were approved. If you want to run your new car using 100% biodiesel, be sure the biodiesel meets ASTM specifications (sulfur content, gum content, cloud point, viscosity, cetane number, specific gravity, etc..)

Even in Germany with its DIN standards, the standards for BIO Diesel are incredibly lax and the product (like a wine) has regional variation, even from a pump with the same name on it!!

Hi Stuey

5% bio to 95% mineral sorry.

Kind Regards

Martin

You make a good point, he was not clear on the percentages, but really it can only be 5% Bio to 95% distillate.

The difference between a 96% Bio to 5 % Distillate to 100% Bio is hardly worth mentioning to my mind........but for full clarity, he should let us know.....

Actually the 5% Bio version is also hardly worth the trouble too.......saving almost nothing and still having the possibility of a single seal disintegrating somewhere expensive!!!

What many people do not understand just how aggressive Bio Diesel can be in its many mixes and guises.....and it can take months or even years for the problems to surface!!!

My understanding is that "Chip Shop" oil (as many UK diesel fans use and know) is actually a lot less aggressive than pure Rapeseed oil for example, which is a major component of at least German Bio Diesel....

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Just for fun only - Thistle oil is called here "Distel Öl", usually written as "Distelöl" or "Distel" though for correctness.....it almost sounds like "Diesel" when you say it!!!

Thistle oil is said to be very healthy in polyunsaturated fats too.....maybe he it will not give your engine a "Heart Attack" either......!!!!

Hey Andy,

The 5% helps the diesel with better lubrication. All else a side, your engine should wear less using it. Whether that offsets the rest of the issues is a matter of debate.

If I had a cheap source of cooking oil I'd run it 100%, but I'd build my vehicle for it.

Petroleum Diesel $4.8999US around here. GenX Bio Diesel is down the street, commercial only.

Brad

Here is a good example of a fuel filter/water separator/heater.

You will want to heat the fuel in the tank @ about 115-150°f a fuel heater such as or suitable type.

Another problem with biodiesel is that in older vehicles it will dissolve/suspend the collected gunk in the bottom of your tank. (Which should not be a problem in this case since your vehicle is relatively new.) What happens is the accumulated sediment in the fuel tank gets partially dissolved by the biodiesel. this material then carries through the fuel line and quickly plugs up the fuel filter. Many folks have made the change over on an old vehicle only to find themselves stranded by the side of the road within a couple of weeks. Typically happens with 100% BD. If you are running 5 - 20%, then you should be OK.

Sounds like a good tip to make sure that you have a spare filter in the car....its probably a good tip for any Diesel car whether or not you run BIO diesel!!!

its probably a good tip for any Diesel car whether or not you run BIO diesel!!!

a.k.a. the four "P's", Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance

Well "P"ut!!