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Thoughts on HAFC & PICC

07/19/2008 12:10 PM

I was reading the closed thread about PICC (Pre-Ignition Catalytic Converter) and HAFC miracle devices. I wanted to comment on those ideas. These are simple assumptions from a non-engineer. 1. The PICC would have to be hot in order to cause the reaction. A computer would be required to adjust the fuel mixture properly when the engine is cold (first started). 2. The HAFC would definitely provide less power than it consumes. No forced reaction will be at 100% efficiency. Hence some testing showing a loss in MPG. 3. The only way that the HAFC would be beneficial is if the energy it consumed creating the Hydrogen and Oxygen gasses is if that energy would otherwise have been lost. Perhaps the automobile's alternator is generating far more electricity than is necessary to run the vehicle, operate the accessories and recharge the battery. If your car's alternator generates enough electricity to run your headlights, radio, windshield wipers, power steering, power brakes, power windows, etc... where does that electricity go when you are not using all of those? One thing that drivers notice is that when the air conditioning is turned on, the car's apparent power seems to diminish. So my guess is that when the AC is off, the energy required to run the AC is no longer diverted from propelling the vehicle. Is this standard practice for all accessories/electrical features? If it is not, then there would be excess electricity created, with an unnecessary drop in MPG efficiency. This amount may be miniscule, or perhaps it is significant. If the typical amount of excess electricity generated by the alternator is significant, then it may be beneficial to apply it to an HAFC. If it would otherwise be wasted, then even an inefficient HAFC will still generate some benefit. Excess electricity would have no benefit for an internal combustion engine (ICE), whereas Hydrogen and Oxygen gasses would. Could someone please explain if adding Hydrogen gas into the fuel mixture of a gasoline engine would work well, or if it would require significant modification of the engine? Also, ICEs generate large amounts of heat. I know photovoltaics (solar cells) can generate electricity from sunlight. Is there a similar method for producing electricity from heat? I am just a guest on the forum. Any responses, please also send to my email. I apologize if this thread is posted in the wrong category. I think the original topic was in this category. John Gilbert john-at-jwgdesign-dot-com

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#1

Re: Thoughts on HAFC & PICC

07/19/2008 12:33 PM

Like any electrical generator, the electrical load determines the work you need to put in to turn the rotor. Consider regenerative braking - if you spin up a motor (with a flywheel to make it easier to see what's going on), then disconnect the power source, the motor will run on for some time.

Repeat the exercise, this time shorting the motor leads after disconnecting the power source. The motor will stop much more quickly - the load you're applying (i.e. just the resistance of the motor leads) is taking energy from the flywheel. If you try it with various values of resistance between the motor leads, you'll find that the smaller the resistance, the more quickly the motor will stop. (This is regenerative braking with the recovered energy being dumped into the resistor, instead if being stored for re-use).

BTW - don't try this with anything bigger than a 'toy' sized motor - or something will melt!

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Thoughts on HAFC & PICC

07/19/2008 12:50 PM

There's a good demonstration in what you say. If you take one of those little demo motor/generators that you can buy from folks like Edmund, turn it with an open output, then short the output, you quickly realize the difference in the amount of work required.

A GA to ya!

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#3

Re: Thoughts on HAFC & PICC

07/20/2008 11:52 PM

hydrogen added to an ICE is just fuel. there is no magic going on and if too much H2 is added as fuel, the H2 will preignite and cause back firing. Ford produced H2 engines in the late 70's early 80's. They dropped it because it was to expensive to produce and the fuel is outragously expensive.

There is no free electricity from any alternator.

Thermal generaltors have been around for centuries. The principle is the same as a thermal couple temperature reading instrument. You might get enough electricity to run a 300 watt tereo.

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