I want it, and I want it now!

I, for one, really enjoy my gasoline-fueled hot-rod and my 10 mpg SUV. I worked hard to be successful enough that $4, $5 and even $6-and-up gas is not a concern to me. You can take your hydrogen-based economy and your righteous indignation to your own bank. I'm doing just fine.

Yup:

I like my go buggy, economy cars are great. It's only a matter of time till the cops get the slow ones as standard issue. Then the chase from 2 miles back will take on a new meaning. Heh, Heh just gotta go fast when that moment comes on ya.

Gas who worries about that?

since their is NO hydrogen found here on earth, how do you propose we get it? fly to the sun and bring it back. NOPE we make it by using oil!!!! Now if you want to use solar or wind to make it why waste all that energy from them to make hydrogen, just use the power directly and get it over with.

HYDROGEN IS NOT A FUEL, ITS AN ENERGY STORAGE SYSTEM, A BATTERY, AND AN INEFFICENT ONE TOO

Vicini, what planet are you from? Hydrogen is all around us. Its in all of the hydrocarbon fuels that we use to create those beautiful haze rings around the big cities. And just how do you plan to connect the power from your wind device to your car while you drive around town?

You want to talk about inefficiency? How about burning gasoline? Now that is what I call wasteful. You need to make a paradyme shift, my friend. There is nothing romantic about a technology that hasn't made any really significant progress in the last 140 years, unless you are talking about the transfer of wealth.

If you're going to invest in solar, why not use all that unused power to split water all day long and make your own hydrogen to burn. Have you compared the BTU content of hydrogen to gasoline? No contest! Hydrogen wins hands down. And, a lack of smog is something you can get used to living without.

Those of you who rake in the profits from an oil based economy will have to find something else to do for a living. Like having to earn your living for a change..... Now that I would like to see. You've had it too easy, for too long. Time to topple.

Those of you who rake in the profits from an oil based economy will have to find something else to do for a living. Like having to earn your living for a change..... Now that I would like to see. You've had it too easy, for too long. Time to topple.

Let's apply this to the government sector also.

Those of you who rake in the profits from taxpayers will have to find something else to do for a living. Like having to earn your living for a change.... Now that I'd like to see. You've had it too easy, for too long. Time to topple.

Or how about those in the Farming sector.

Or maybe the Bicycle industry.

Or medical industry.

Or....

It sounds like you both are arguing over different subjects, Vicini is correct in that there is nearly no elemental hydrogen molecules found on earth. Molecular hydrogen is nearly uneffected by our graity and bouyant in our atmosphere, so it tend to go right out to space and leave the planet. On the other hand hydrogen atoms do occur bonded to other atoms in molecules. Regarding the energy you can derive from hydrogen, on a atomic basis, the H-H bond does not provide nearly as much energy as the C-C bond. Additionally, we can not contain hydrogen gas, everything is permeable to hydrogen gas. The best we can do is retard the rate of loss. Also, all hydrogen atoms on the planet are in a lower energy state bonded to other atoms, so in order to obtain hydrogen, we must generate it from a source molecule by adding energy (you always get less energy out of this process than is input). Regarding the process of generating hydrogen from water, keep in mind that water is a valuable resource necessary for life. We have seen the impact that increased ethanol production in the first world has had on the grain markets, and the riots in the second and third world over grain based food products. Now imagine if water were used for energy, because the byproducts from sea water are not useful in the quantities we would need to generate hydrogen for fuel, and fouling of systems is always a concern, the energy markets would want drinking quality or better water to process. So you intorduce a new competitor for the water resources many countries already have major fights over. When the choice becomes energy, food, drinking water, or bunnies/fish, who would you side with?

show me where there is pure, unbonded hydrogen here on earth. I've seen trace amounts mixed with natural gas in the ppm range, but hydrogen by its self is NOT abundant, we have to make it,

"You can take that to the bank! Say it now! Electricity from hydrogen is the future! Always has been!"

Iteresting idea, but in the long run its useless. The addiction isnt necessarily with oil, its more with our lifestyle. We shoud be able to drive to the corner store or to the neighbours damnit! How dare the oil companies price oil to the pt that makes that stupid!. The future lies in efficiency (driving less, better industrial processes, more insulation in homes) and better energy sources like fusion, wind, solar, tide (waves) and hydroelectric (big dams).

Do a calculation from first principals on how much energy, only from driving your car, you use from fossil fuels. Then translate that into how much hydrogen (Volume) you would need to use the same amount. Then remember that hydrogen is less efficient then the combustion vehicle (only because combustion has been around a lot longer). Then take that volume and figure out what pressure it would have to be at to fit into a 50 L ~ 20 Gal? tank. It just isnt practical at the moment. As vicini said, hydrogen is a battery, not an energy source.

If you truly want to give up your oil addiction you should probably consider giving up all medicines, plastics (unless made from corn), metals, food (unless you grow it at home) that are based oil derivatives or use oil to get harvested. Your home would have to basically be made out of wood, or preferably out of dirt using a few wood supports and accents.

Anywho, it isnt practical to make the switch now. Grin and bare it for a bit . Soon techs will be out that are cheaper than oil (ie the car that travels 40 miles for 80 cents), solar panels and wind turbines will be cheaper and you can build yourself a green home that is nice and comfy.

It's actually easy make methane rich biogas out of fermented garbage and/or manure, that will actually run an internal combustion engine, but everybody want hydrogen, hydrogen, hydrogen. I'll probably get dinged for off-topic for even mentioning it.

More likely, history will repeat, and just like the 70's the price of oil will drop (crash) and people like the OP will be happy to buy gasoline at $2.50 a gallon and all this talk of hydrogen and alternative energies will go away and everyone in the US will be driving SUV's and other trucks again.

Oh, and by the way to the OP, you want, want, want.... What are you doing about making it happen? Yeah, I thought so....