Ever try a/c motor to drive a car?

The extension cord gets in the way of traffic.

that's been the big problem but maybe sky-hook technology will solve it.

Perhaps the real problem will be that the car will go forward when the wave is positive, stop, then go backwards as the wave goes negative.

Obviously... just joking.

To Ba/ael & L5 ... *I* , too , got a black eye on this same question HERE.

I was astonished at what's going on right under our very noses!

What we take for granted (as dogma) one day is hearsay the next...

"Blessed weekend" to all ~

Are you stand up comedian? I just had a laugh because it's a valid point.

the laugh is on YOU and every other ninny who doesn't read up before posting!

Have somebody read the link from this post to you

http://cr4.globalspec.com/comment/244879/Re-AC-Motor

It seems you haven't got my point. I thought it was a spontaneous, yet valid, remark in a slightly humorous way, don't you think? Maybe it wasn't. It just comes down how you interpret it.

L_5' its been done, motor in each wheel use a 400 hz motor to get physically smaller size, perry

Thanks perry, where can I find the specs? I'm a cheap b#####d so it would be great if the specs are free and easy. Having a drive motor on all four corners probably helps in recovery of heat energy that would go into break pads but I was hoping to do something less radical like using a small late model car with a bad engine and doing the conversion. The price of a d/c drive motor in the 20-hp range is so high. A/C motors seam to be cheaper. A typical d/c motor of that size draws 500 amps at 72 volts. Maybe there is an inverter that can handle those amps stepping up from 12 volts d/c to 72 or 120 a/c. I have no idea what other problems this would entail since I have a rudimentary understanding on electricity and electric circuits and as mentioned, I'm cheap and don't want to spend money re-discovering what others already have.

It's been tested by many controller companies. An a/c system only shows a 2% difference in efficiency, 83% for d/c and 85% for a/c. If your frugal stick to d/c and research the battery tech on the new car from Think. Best bet if your only looking for 72 volt then increase to 96v and stick to lead acid for the time being.

Cheap B******S like yourself <*cough*...and me...*cough*> find DC much cheaper. While the A/C motor is cheaper you need to find 'the' size that suits your vehicle and then get a sufficiently powerful inverter to drive it. The inverter does not lose much power (if you buy a good one) but for me the difference was an AC system drivetrain was going to cost about $10k more...and be AC inverter runs better at high voltages than low so instead of a 120-150V pack you end up with >300V in order to get highway speeds. Higher voltage has less line loss (heating) so this would likely explain the slight difference in drive efficiency. The other perk of AC is the regenerative braking as there is no brush-advancing like is necessary for a DC drive. Go take a look at www.evalbum.com to get an idea of what other people are using for a similarly sized vehicle. www.metricmind.com builds some very high quality AC driven systems if you want to see what components are necessary. The stuff he uses is all made for EVs by Seimens so it is all very high quality...not your junkyard hackjob. Cheers!

Thanks for the point in the right direction. Is there a good way to calculate d/c motor hp per lbs. of weight? Since I'm starting from scratch I can get about any platform, even an old MGB or Datsun pickup to try this out. I like the idea of a large roof area too to set up thin film photo voltaic array to trickle charge the whole contraption. Maybe a shell on the truck bed will give that surface area.

I'd really look at similar vehicles. In a small vehicle (like the MG) you'll be very limited in space so it might make a good neighborhood vehicle but lithium would be about the only way to get it up to highway speed and have any useful range. Lead acid would make it way too heavy. Small pickups are a good budget platform as the frames (particularly that lovely box on the back) can hold all the weight of the batteries...most people add an extra leaf-spring to maintain the ride height. If you're looking at going this route, take a look at the small rangers or S-10 as there are kits available so you don't have to manufacture parts. If you don't want a kit then you could at least get ideas of what parts to pick by looking at the kits online.

Solar will cost a LOT and any practical surface area would never be able to charge you batteries. Take a look for the 'solar van' on the web.

cheers.

Thanks for the tip on the kits for Ford Ranger trucks that's probably how I'll go. The solar think was just a thought, more of a trickle charger while the vehicle is parked and not in use. This little tread has been a lot of help with some great pointers, interesting history lessons, and a lot of good-natured humor too. I hope I don't run into any painted tunnels but maybe I'll have the patron saint of a/c current Tesla looking over me and I'll just pass on through! Mbeep mbeep. Wish I had those docs that the FBI has stashed away for safekeeping. Has freedom of information been done to get them?

ps: Anybody have a handy weight to d/c drive motor horsepower conversion equation?

Your vehicle weight is most significant for stop'n'go driving where you need lots of torque to accelerate a big weight and very good brakes if you've added 1000-1500lbs of lead acid batteries to the vehicle. This is why I'm shopping for lithium but won't be buying until next spring sometime.

Aerodynamics and rolling resistance are most signifiant range....hence, my choice of the eagle talon. Few cars are more aerodynamic and still provide a spacious enough platform for the battery packs, chargers, controllers, etc.

The aerodynamic info from wikipedia shows that it should only take about 27-30 hp to keep this car going 100km/h so I've picked a 40hp motor. Now "only 40hp?!?" is a response that inevitably comes but electric motors are not the same as gas...you do not rev your engine to 4000rpm and change gears...it simple turns slower and outputs more torque. 2 gears (generally 2 & 4) will cover the whole range of speeds from a dead standstill to highway. The motor I've chosen, the NetGain Warp9, has a lot of torque and is used in many small pickup conversions and sells for about $2000CAD. There's a lot of pickups on evalbum so you'll be able to look at what everyone else is using and pick your parts based on their experience.

Have fun...lots of research and learning is never a waste of time before you start. Be ready for some waits and backorders as interest in this sort of thing is a an all time high with the gas prices. I waited 3 months for my motor and the controller wait is closer to 6 months.

Eng. Nikola Tesla has done this around 1938, but he had speciall electromotor built in Westinghouse Laboratories from his specifications, but how he has supplied electricity remains mistery, as he had some control box with radio lamps...... Since he was experimenting with wirless electricity distribution, perhaps this was used, but some think he has found the way to tap some other source, going even that far that he used Gravity waves converter! One thing is sure, it was AC motor, since HE invented AC generators and motors, radio controls, wireless telegraphy, neon lamps etc. etc...

Since he allways wanted to give world totaly FREE energy, perhaps this is why they run him over with the car and that is reason his laboratories were burned to the ground next day after he died, and why FBI confiscated all his papers from hotel room where he lived......

Perhaps somebody from Westinghouse could find blueprints in their archive for motor, but that tuner or converter was of his own devising.... Even so, half of invention would be better than nothing, right?

That's right. And there was that other time, circa 1961, when one W. Coyote, was pursuing patent on his vehicle with rear-mount AC motor connected to generator under the hood. The design rested on a secret fuel distillation process, so the generator fuel tank was marked XXX. Anyway, during a Saturday morning televised demo run of his vehicle, the unfortunate Mr. Coyote and his invention met untimely ends when he smashed the car to smithereens against a gigantic boulder. Afterwards, rumors and theories abounded as to whether it might not have been an FBI agent, or a GM operative, reportedly observed dashing from the scene, who had painted a tunnel opening and roadway continuation on the side of that boulder.

It is also said that his neighbor (a Road Runner of some notoriety) was the painter of the tunnel!

I just stated verifiable facts about my great countrymen Nikola Tesla, who has had over 900 patents granted in US.

You think I never saw a cartoon with Road Runner and its arch enemy?

What do You think this is anyway, a comedy show? Those remarks were OFF subject and if I am moderator at CR4, I would ban You from access and participation for remarks like this!

Cool it. We've all gotten replies like this. No insult is intended; sometimes we just feel a need to make a joke. Go to the comment and press RATE. Then rate it off-topic.

Henrik,

Sorry but, I'm afraid you didn't grasp the underlying significance of the little joke, and that its object was the original post, not yours. Otherwise you might have been inclined to post GA rather than take insult and post OT. Yes, I did take note of your country of origin . . . but I decided to take the chance with a little levity since the Roadrunner comparison fits so aptly under yours; that is to say, your reference to Tesla brought the comparison to mind. Let me explain further to allay any further mis-interpretation.

The friendly jab towards the original post, much like the skyhook needling, casts no aspersion upon Tesla, or upon his country of origin and the (then) countrymen and their descendants he left behind when he emigrated—neither those nor his American countrymen. Here's why. Tesla was a first, an original innovator where nothing had come before and most knowledge was yet to be discovered—no one would dispute his fame or technical preeminence in his own time. On the other hand, who hasn't imagined in his own mind at one time or another the solving of a problem that has eluded thousands of like-minded who came before; and dreamt of creating the great break-through invention that will save mankind, and lead to riches and fame as well? But who hasn't also, in due time, come to the realization that the age of rugged, individual scientific and engineering "genius," that time of individual insights and efforts that marked the nineteenth century, is gone for good, never to return. Or that, in the case of personal transportation, concepts good or bad, have scant chance of realization in practice without the human and capital resources available only to large corporations, and governments—and, to my knowledge, neither of those are seriously pursuing the self-propelled mobile inverter transport concept.

This reality, this juxtaposition of Nikola's times and today—that and the seemingly naive idea that great break-through ideas would be offered by strangers in public chat rooms—is what lay at the heart of Guest's lampooning of the original thread starter. Given today's suspicious environment of conspiracy theory and intrigue, Wiley Coyote's relentless pursuit of a home brewed invention by which, at long last, to overcome nature and capture the elusive prize (Roadrunner)—that and his never-ending heartbreak in the efforts—was intended only as a parody, not of you or your country, but of the doubtless sincerity, but equally dubious naivete, behind the OT starter's question.

So, if you now understand better, perhaps you will now be a good sport and go back and reverse your OT votes?

Beep Beep?

Good on ya-young fella!. It is natural to hero-worship fabled heros- where the actual details have been lost or never recorded or were word of mouth- each recounting adds more kudos- but you can be very assured of this: any basis in fact would have been replicated by now- with latest knowledge, materials,detailed analysis- and yes- I wish it were possible- there are always conspiracy theories & those who choose to believe in them!. Ac & DC gens were around long before Tesla- he merely popularised the poly-phase ac concept- & yes, he had lots of patents- this means nothing- any idiot can patent anything- doesn't mean the patent will work!.(most don't!). And no- I haven't patented anything- though I have invented things!. The drawback with me is that I can't answer the really relevant things- nobody can!. (Hooman dat is!!!.) cheers.

Check out http://www.teslamotors.com/ that car uses a A/C motor with VFD technology. Is very cool!

I like the Tesla as a "production" vehicle and if I had an extra $150,000 laying around, I would be on the list.

I also like this one as a fun vehicle.

rasertech.com

But if you want fast...

ABB E-Motion land speed record

And if you read carefully, they used industrial drives to power it.

If you have that kind of money I think you'd better still take it easy before you spend it!

This whole thing comes out of the blue. Looks like this car can already offer what a F1 and a sports car can combined, and that makes it almost 'sounds too good to be true'.

In plain English - I believe it when I see it. If this is true than the rest the car manufacturers can close down at once - full stop.

I have always been interested to follow the development of new electric cars but this will either become a legendary success in no time or just another glimmer of hope.

So, even if you hit the jack pot, before you hand your money over for a car like that just make sure you have thoroughly test driven it. Check the motor, the transmission and the battery, these are the most important things, worry about the upholstery, aircon, radio...later.

A onetime next door neighbour of mine back in the mid 90s invited me to test drive a Civic from his work that was purely designed and made by Honda USA. The feed backs from the employees, who participated in the testing of the vehicle, were pretty poor compared to a fully JAP made Civic in just about in any aspects.

Therefore, I do believe the hybrids have a long way to go and will be hard to beat with an off-the-shelf (excuse me) electric car.

Do not fall for the name "Tesla" either! In these days and age a concept should be backed by a properly tested practical design, but is it? ($100K+ is a lot of dough for any car!!!)

If, however, this car turns out to be as good as they claim it is, then it's just a matter of time before all the major oil producing countries will be in tears including the OPEC. (Not that I would feel sorry for them.)

Try this for an idea….

Some motor controllers (Variable Speed Drives) can be supplied with DC at a high voltage. We see this on some yachts to drive ac motors from batteries. Use two of these to drive two independent motors on a front wheel drive car. This means you won't need a differential.

You'll need to stack of batteries in series, dependant on the original voltage of the VSD. If you find one at 208V (3phase) then you will need 18 to 24 x12V batteries. You will need to find the actual voltage from the manufacturers. Bear in mind they will always be used in discharge, so a voltage per battery of 12.5V down to say 11V (under load) would be reasonable figures to play with.

If you get it going, post the results!