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pump

07/31/2008 5:34 AM

what is the difference between normal water centrifugal pump and condensate pump?

difference between negative suction head and positive suction head?

what will affect when two negative suction head pumps will get connected to same discharge line

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Guru
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#1

Re: pump

07/31/2008 6:05 AM

<...what is the difference between normal water centrifugal pump and condensate pump?...>

A condensate pump has to pass a liquid that is close to its boiling conditions. So the casing and impeller are specially designed so as not to cause conditions where the pressure drops to the point where boiling, and hence cavitation, occurs.

Hot condensate is agressive. Hot condensate and cavitation will wreck a pump in next to no time.

It is common to find steam-driven condensate pumps for this reason, "Ogden" being a persistent and affectionate brand-name (usual disclaimer).

<...difference between negative suction head and positive suction head?...>

A centrifugal pump with a negative suction head may need "priming", i.e. removing all air from the inlet piping and casing, before it will operate as a pump. A centrifugal pump with a positive suction head will prime itself, or rather, the inlet will prime the pump before it starts.

<...what will affect when two negative suction head pumps will get connected to same discharge line...>

Both the pumps' individual characteristics and also the discharge system characteristic will determine the outcome.

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#2

Re: pump

08/01/2008 3:01 AM

A condensate pump usually draws condensate directly from the exhaust side of a steam driven motor. This could be a steam reciprocating type or turbine. The condensate is collected at the bottom of the condenser and this is where the condensate pump takes its suction from. When steam collapses from a gas to a liquid it looses a lot of volume very quickly. This has an advantage in that it increases the velocity of the steam following therefore more recoverable energy and it helps to ensure that due point isn't reached before the steam is clear of the last rows of turbine blades.

The problem for the condensate pump is that it is sucking out of this "hot well" of water or condensate that has a strong vacuum on the other side of it. This results in a negative suction head. If it sucks to hard the water turns to steam and causes cavitation in the pump. (This is not good but keeps maintenance engineers employed and design engineers thinking.) If the pump doesn't suck hard enough there may not be enough hot condensate to go back to the boiler and the short fall will have to be made up by drawing from tanks. This water is likely to be cold and require the use of more energy to bring the feed water to the boil so we loose efficiency.

An example of a positive suction head for a centrifugal pump is where the pump is mounted below the tank that it is sucking from. Gravity is pulling the water into the pump inlet so the pump inlet is subjected to a positive pressure.

It is common to have to 2 condensate pumps hooked into the same discharge manifold. It may be that more than one condensate pump is required for full power or that they are both 100% duty pumps with one shut down for maintenance or on standby.

Sometimes in a multi boiler/turbine plant there is a common condensate manifold to enable cross connection. This is far more common on ships than shore based plants.

BAB

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: pump

08/01/2008 6:38 AM

i am collecting all my condensate in 12ton tank and i want to pump it in another tank which type of pump will be suitable

is it possible to pump hot water by normal water centrifugal pump?

or i can use condensate pump to pump directly in final tank instead of that 12 ton intermediate tank

please guide me

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: pump

08/01/2008 9:40 AM

A specially selected condensate pump is recommended.

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#6
In reply to #3

Re: pump

08/01/2008 3:13 PM

thanks for advice

my condensate temperature is 100 degree celcious

i not understand that condensate reciever tank elevated with the pump underneath

is this pump required electrical motor as you said its steam driven motor because our purpose is energy conservation

what is exactly the adequate NPSH

What about condensate pump maintenance

is it having impeller cavitatio problem or something like this another problem any disadvantages

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#4

Re: pump

08/01/2008 7:38 AM

A condensate pump is equipped to be able to run at the 200+ degrees F on a continual basis.

Typically hard faced seals, with appropriate elastomeres EPDM often chosen.

Bearing materials will vary from one pump to another.

Another main concern is having a low NPSHr (Net Positive Suction Head required)

As your condensate is very near the boiling point, the slightest vacuum makes it boil,

and will consequently cavitate inside your pump, causing tremendous damage.

Often you will see condensate receiver tanks elevated with the pump underneath.

This is to insure the pump has adequate NPSH to operate.

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#7

Re: pump

08/02/2008 3:09 AM

Hi Sandeep

From the design point of view,both are considered centrifugal pumps.Depending upon the woking conditions we can clasify each,a condensate extraction pump is used to transfer the condensed steam, as water, from the steam condenser-in a thermal power plant-to deaerator,then to a boiler feed water pump to feed the boiler with treated water.

regarding the suction head,you know that atm. pressure is zero gauge pressure,above this level pressure is considered positive and under it is considered negative. The term negative suction head means that pressure is smaller than zero gauge at suction side of the pump and the term positive suction head means that pressure is higher than zero gauge at suction side of the pump.

according to what is mentioned above,if two pumps are well selected to work at a negative suction head and are,then,connected to the discharge line of another pump,nothing would happen provided that the discharge pressure of both pumps are higher than pressure in the discharge line of the third pump.In this case,you may need to a pressure regulator at discharge side of each pump.

sayed sarhan.

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#8

Re: pump

08/04/2008 3:40 AM

A centrifugal pump is a description of the unit based on its design and condensate pump is term use for its application. Condensate pump is also a centrifugal pump at different design while a centrifugal pump can be applied to condesate aplication.

Negative and positive suction is applicable only to horizontal pumps, whether it is an end suction or a between bearing design. Negative suction head is a definition when your available level of water in the suction side is below the pumps centerline or the base level, and a positive suction head is a term used when the water level in the suction side is above the pumps centerline or the base level. They both have an effect to the performance of the pump.

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#9

Re: pump

08/04/2008 3:47 AM

for the third question . . . . . .

There will be no effect at all if the two pumps have different suction line and have a common discharge line even if it runs at the same time. But if it has a common suction line or a header in the suction line then there will be a great effect in its efficiency or the discharge output.

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#10

Re: pump

08/04/2008 6:17 PM

The shape of your condensate tank can help eliminate cavitation.

If you 12 tonne tank was a square metre in cross section and 12 metres tall and the pump's inlet was at the bottom of the tank you would have a 12 metre positive suction head.

That would stop it boiling.

Is it possible to just syphon it to you alternative tank?

Given that your tank is only 12 tonne/cubic metres is it possible to lift it with a crane to drain it directly to where you want it?

One other point to consider is that, as this is condensate it is important to keep it clean. Are the lines and tanks that you are proposing to use clean and flushed to a suitable standard?

BAB

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: pump

08/08/2008 2:04 PM

what is the difference between condensate pump and hot water pump

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