Previous in Forum: Battery Bank Capacity   Next in Forum: cable diameter
Close
Close
Close
13 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Member

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 8

temperature rise Vs resistance

08/23/2008 4:41 AM

Hi All

I would like to get electrical/physical explanation for the relationship between temperature rise and conductor's resistance.

thanks

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Anonymous Poster
#1

Re: temperature rise Vs resistance

08/23/2008 9:34 AM

Cables whether only energized or carrying load current, are a source of heat.

This heat energy causes a temperature rise in the cable that must be kept within limits that have been established through years of experience. The various components of a cable can endure some maximum temperature on a sustained basis with no undue level of deterioration.

There are several sources of heat in a cable, such as losses caused by current flow in the conductor, dielectric loss in the insulation, current in the shielding, sheaths, and armor. Sources external to the cable include induced current in a surrounding conduit, adjacent cables, steam mains, etc.

The heat sources result in a temperature rise in the cable that must flow outward through the various materials that have varying resistance to the flow of that heat. These resistances include the cable insulation, sheaths, jackets, air, conduits, concrete, surrounding soil, and finally to ambient earth.

In order to avoid damage, the temperature rise must not exceed those maximum temperatures that the cable components have demonstrated that they can endure.

It is the careful balancing of temperature rise to the acceptable levels and the ability to dissipate that heat that determines the cable ampacity.

--------------------------------------

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: United States of America
Posts: 429
Good Answers: 3
#2

Re: temperature rise Vs resistance

08/23/2008 11:27 AM

When electricity flows through a wire the electrons of the wire actually undergo continual displacement in the direction of flow. However, as the temperature rises which it does because of the energy loses required to force the electron displacements, the electrons also begin to undergo much more random motions. These randomized motions introduce addition dissipation of the electromotive energy which shows up as resistance to electricity flow.

This is the most lucid explanation I can provide without going into electron dynamics in metals.

I hope that this is helpful

__________________
EditorGBAnalysts - Give a boy fish and he will eat may be for a day, but teach him how to fish and he will eat everyday.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 749
Good Answers: 13
#7
In reply to #2

Re: temperature rise Vs resistance

08/24/2008 8:38 PM

As I understand it there is another factor.

The lower the temperature in a conductor the closer packed the atoms are. Hence there is less resistance to the transfer of the electron from one atom to the next.

j.

Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#3

Re: temperature rise Vs resistance

08/24/2008 12:47 AM

Total Losses = I2R + Other Losses (Die electric, Eddy Cyrrent, Losses associated with Leakage etc)

Total Dissipation = Conduction+Covection+ Radiation from the conductor, which depends on the temp of conductor, its insulator, amient etc,

Temp Rise = (Loss-Dissipation) /Sp heat

At the temp at which the Loss = dissipation is when the system is in the thermal eauillibrium and the insulation is designed to withstand this temp under worst circumstances + factor of safety

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 246
Good Answers: 6
#4

Re: temperature rise Vs resistance

08/24/2008 10:32 AM

If you want a simple explanation which can be used to give a novice a pictorial idea then here goes. All atoms in solids undergo continuous vibration due to thermal energy. Electrons flow in metals by passing between atoms and when a voltage is applied will travel in the direction of the electrical field. However some will interact with the atoms on the way and this is resistance. The higher the temperature the more vibration and the more chance of interactions therefore the resistance increases. At absolute zero these atomic vibrations will cease and resistance will be zero making a superconductor. Further to this when an electron interacts with an atom the atoms vibrations will increase so pushing electrons through metals creates heat which in turn increases resistance and so on. This is how light bulb filaments work in which the temperature escalates till the conductor glows. In semiconductors each interaction between electrons and atoms can actually release loosely bound electrons so that the overall number or flux of electrons increases. This is interpreted as a decrease in resistance. Transistors use this property to amplify small signals into larger current flows.

Think of a small boy walking through a crowd at a football match. He is the electron and the members of the crowd the atoms. His progress is good until a goal is scored and the crowd excitedly jump up and down. Now the boy finds it much harder to walk and gets jostled sometimes going backwards. The resistance has increased. If each person in the crowd also has a son (aloosely boud electron) then when the boy bumps into someone the son breaks free also walking off. This is like a semiconductor. Hope this isn`t too basic but solid high school explanation which will give a picture to focus on. By the way little girls also go to football matches (sorry to all you pc readers).

__________________
Peter Jensen
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 729
Good Answers: 2
#8
In reply to #4

Re: temperature rise Vs resistance

08/26/2008 3:01 AM

very good example .Thanks for sharing

__________________
To avoid crticism do nothing,say nothing,be nothing
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Orlando
Posts: 242
Good Answers: 3
#5

Re: temperature rise Vs resistance

08/24/2008 2:52 PM

Perhaps responders have gotten off track. Maybe the inquirer is only wanting an expaination of temperature coefficient, given certain materials, such as resistors.

Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Alabama
Posts: 1604
Good Answers: 63
#6

Re: temperature rise Vs resistance

08/24/2008 6:03 PM

The formula for finding the resistance of a conductor at a different temperature is as follows:

R1- resistance at temperature T1

R2 - resistance at temperature T2

a = temperature coefficient of resistance at T1 for a conductor with a resistance R1

T1 - initial of reference temperature

T2 - temperature at which the resistance R2 is desired

example T1 = 25C conductor resistance = 0.102 ohms per 1000 ft a = 0.00385 at 25C for copper. a = 0.00395 for AL

Desired resistance at 90C

R2 = R1(1 + a(T2 - T1))

R2 = 0.102(1 + 0.00385(90 - 25)) = 0.102 x 1.25 = 0.128 ohms

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 729
Good Answers: 2
#9

Re: temperature rise Vs resistance

08/26/2008 3:06 AM

Most answers are not relevent .He has asked for an explanation of rise of resistance with rise in temp

__________________
To avoid crticism do nothing,say nothing,be nothing
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 246
Good Answers: 6
#10
In reply to #9

Re: temperature rise Vs resistance

08/26/2008 5:08 AM

Answers which criticize other answers without improvement are surely the least helpful of all. The question did lack a certain amount of detail and was thus open to interpretation.

__________________
Peter Jensen
Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 8
#11

Re: temperature rise Vs resistance

08/26/2008 9:45 AM

Thanks all

What I really needed to know is what will exactly happens to the resistance of the conductor when there is a temperature rise in this conductor. discussion is still open

Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Alabama
Posts: 1604
Good Answers: 63
#12
In reply to #11

Re: temperature rise Vs resistance

08/26/2008 5:10 PM

It need not be. answer

R2 = R1(1 + a(T2 - T1))

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: United States of America
Posts: 429
Good Answers: 3
#13
In reply to #11

Re: temperature rise Vs resistance

08/26/2008 5:28 PM

I believe that everybody has just about asserted the same view to you:

When the temperature rises, the resistance increases.

__________________
EditorGBAnalysts - Give a boy fish and he will eat may be for a day, but teach him how to fish and he will eat everyday.
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 13 comments
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (2); Bill ML (1); editorgbanalysts (2); Eng.alasad (1); Jack Jersawitz (1); nesubra (2); Pj3ns3n (2); wareagle (2)

Previous in Forum: Battery Bank Capacity   Next in Forum: cable diameter

Advertisement