Stirling Power Generators to 50 KVa

Just to make things clear - I "NEED" information. Sorry about that.

This is a start Ouststiger, http://www.stirlingenergy.com/technology/suncatcher.asp

25 KW units

Brad

Sandia National Laboratories has a huge program for Stirling engines. I think they go up to a few hundred kW, but we are quite far off of a few thousand kW.

O/K thanks to the 2 replies above but as you say not quite what we are looking for.

The first one looks to me more like a "research-grant" milking exercise and the second as stated looks as if can only just manage to "drag" itself out of the "toy" category.

Allow me to elaborate somewhat.

As of now we are in the business of small scale manufacture of among other things hydro-turbines together with many other agro-processing equipment. Situated as we are on the slopes of Mount Elgon Micro-Hydro is the perfect source of our power as such we are considered to be the leading manufacturers around.

20% of Uganda lends itself to hydro power unfortunately the other 80% is somewhat FLAT! Hence - Not!

As we are soon to move from our present "perfect" power site out onto the flat lands we need to change our power source - hence - Stirling. Why? You burn the rubbish and feed it straight into the engine - NEAT! No messing with "PooP" for bio-gas, no buggering around with temperamental "Gassifierethings"!!! or other such "wonderful ideas" from the "tree-hugging types"

I need about 50Kva to run a factory with welders, machinery and other such like equipment and all I can find are "TOYS"!!!!!!!!

Problem, it would appear that the industry has yet to catch up with us "Oustigers" here in the bush.

As our "Aussy" friends would say - "Where the *uc$ are yer?"

Thanks

H

Burning rubbish?

Dont have enough Sunpower?

Why Stirlings? Inasmuch as Charnot Cycle is theoretically 97% effective, I did not find (so far) effective Stirling, so I am very much interested if You find some! You have to have cooling as well as heating for Stirling, and there is great temperature los in any case.

I believe You need combined Solar & rubbish burning Power station, which could later be turned into 24/7 Solarpower Station using steam turbines, just like we plan in coproduction of Croatia and India for Lebanese mushrom growing farm that like to burn straw....

If You are interested, contact me directly.

Hi Henrik14,

Most petrol engines in todays road vehicles run at about 18 to 22% carnot efficiency.

Diesel engines which are more efficient when mounted into a road vehicle run at about 24 to 30% carnot efficiency.

In fact it is very difficult to produce a small internal combustion engine that is to be mounted in a road vehicle to achieve a much higher efficiency than about 35% carnot efficiency.

Some of our modern day stirling engines can run at about 40 to 44% carnot efficiency, and the first person to produce any engine with a carnot efficiency of 97% will rule the world.

Spencer.

Hm. Cant say I am expert, but were not internall combustion engine called >>Otto Cycle<<? It has other names like >>Diesel Cycle<< too, but Carnot Cycle is NOT one of those........

Also, did You ever heard of Wankel Motor? It has much greater efficiency, but in time it was invented there was no materiall which could stand temperatures produced....

MERCEDES produced racing car and even one luxury sports model that went 300Kmh per hour where other cars were just reaching 100Kmh, and could go 100 Km with just ONE Liter of gasoline.......

Perhaps new ceramics and other nanomaterials could be working today...........

I read some articles where FIRST Stirling engines had 44% efficiency, and that were at end of 19th century. Surely today with high precision machining, higher quality materials and using computer simulation it should be possible to make them more efficient? Author claimed 97%, and I know that Pelton turbines topped 92% and some claim Francis turbines are still more efficient, so why not Stirling machines?

Perhaps it is cooling that spend energy, so total output is not so high as it could be?

Does anybody know efficiency of simple steam motor (Lilke in steam boats or locomotives)? Of course, multi stage steamturbines are much more efficient and even dont need cooling, and with new nano isolator materials, loss of heat would be minimall, but I am curious about good old steam machines that has run even agriculturall machines in 19th century.........

Actually the overshot water wheel is 98-99% effecient.

however you are confusing cycle efficiency with actual efficiency.

Mazda make a wankel engine, so do Norton and their aircraft affiliates

This chap needs a 50 kva generator, A wind turbine and solar array would supply your needs. The big new windmills are suppossedly quite and are available up to 1 Mw output, way over what you need! I understand they are of Dutch manufacture.

Reader and Hooper have a book titled 'stirling engines' which is getting dated but gives a good background on stirling developments. Phillips did a lot of work as did United Stirling of Malmo sweden.

Hi Henrik,

I see that you don't have a lot of experience when it comes to engines!

By the time of the turn of the twentieth century no stirling engine had an efficiency above 6%, Phillips of Holland designed and built the first modern stirling engine, and it was not until 1947 that they achieved an efficiency of 27%, since that time they designed and built stirling engines that went up to 34%, they have now ceased to produce any stirling engines.

After Phillips came General motors, Ford, MAN, and United Stirling of Sweden, these companies all experimented to produce high efficiency stirling engines, some of which are in space! The Japanese have also got into this stirling engine business, and between 1974 and up to today they have been experimenting with these engines.

It is only in the last 20 years or so that they have achieved to produce stirling engines with an efficiency of 44 to 48%!!!!

Steam Engines:- The highest efficiency of any modern reciprocating steam engine is between 12 to 16%, of steam turbines is 36%, but then they are so big that they cannot be mounted into a road going vehicle, but most of our electricity is produced by them!

Spencer.

Mr. Spencer,

Whatever I know about engines is from personall contact and from use, but I was seldom in position to think about their efficiency, they worked and this was enough.

All the rest I collected from encyclopedias and WEB, but web data tend to be less reliable then I like.

It is hard for me to believe that first Sterlings had only 6% efficiency, as at time of their invention there were steam engines in wide use, and Carnot Cycle was hailed as most efficient means of energy conversion, and so it is considered even now..........

We have in our Technicall Museum severall Stirlings, and they were able to work taping heat off simple iron stowe, or just by making wood fire........

This days (so I read on WEB) there are demonstration models working off heat from human hand, so probably temperature difference is just 10 degrees Celsius.......

Care to tell where You get all this efficiency data?

What is reason for such poor eficiency if Charnot Cycle is at least theoreticaly so effective? Could not weakneses be analysed and improved?

I am actually just Systems Engineer of Informatic Technology, but I could analyse any system and find improvements.

I am also inventor and son of inventor, gunsmith and engineer, nephew of two Aeronautic Engineers, also grandson of steam locomotives repair engineer, but I guess that does not really count, does it?

However, I never had feeling that all those engines are so inefficient untill invention of Wankel motor that produced more power using less gasoline, even if Ether was added..........

My father was making small gasoline engines for avio models that were 3 times more effective than factory made ones, and of course this was advantage when payload is limited and nobody could take more gasoline on avio model..... He even made bigger motor for motocycle of his friend who won severall races because of greater speed his motor was able to achieve. I had model of steam engine with just one piston that worked greatly using just simple and small cerosene lamp...........

So WHICH temperature to electricity conversion system would YOU recommend as most effective?

I think that if we suceed to recycle some of >>naturall<< energy leaks in existing systems, we could get more effective use of thermal energy produced, and so spend less fuel that produce CO2 and other more harmfull chemicals, and get cheaper energy............

Also, less stages there are in energy conversion, less loses there would be in total, and it would take someone like Wankel to make basic change from piston type to other means for rotation of generator shaft, no? Why not ALSO in Stirling machines?

But, it is allways interesting to me how there is discrepancy between data od factory and some >>independent<< expert, that could be paid to lie to public so people would accept option for generating energy which would be peresented as most efficient, like atomic energy for instance....... But, while factory must be ready to PROVE that their data is correct, such person need not prove anything, right?

I have seen list of CO2 generation and CO2 equivalent generation comparison for various electricity producing technologies, where higher values were assigned to Solar electric panels and Solarpower Stations then to burning of lignite coal, and best favored were Atomic energy, but even there I saw considerable differences beween >>domestic<< produced energents and imported ones!

That is pure MANIPULATION with data, and surely Solar panels CANNOT produce ANY CO2, and I believe same is case with Solarpower and Windpower stations, no?

Curiously, production of Methane by biodigestion from organic wastes were marked wih NEGATIVE values for both CO2 and CO2 equivalent generation, just like this REMOVE CO2 from atmosphere, which is not case, specially if methane is just burned afterward..........

GUYS! GUYS! I aint in the LEAST bit interested in "Efishency" I got ALL the fuel (rubish) in the world to burn - I just need the EASY way to use it to drive me WELDER!

Can we get back on line please - take a look at todays posting from me to help you to better get the "smell" of where I wont to get to.

Thanks

H

Oustiger,

DaS Energy is bloody Australian, it dinosaured Stirling piston with a hydro Francis turbine. Kept the hot cold principal, and uses Co2 as the drive gas.

+10 Celsius produces 90 meters head per second flow.

+32.1 Celsius produces 248 meters head per second flow.

+75 Celsius produces 9,926 meters head per second flow.

12.705 megawatts, 1 litre per minute Methane.

211 Kw, 1 litre per hour Methane.

50 Kw 0.25 litre per hour Methane.

Hydro turbine 50 KWa, flow per second at head?, discharge 74 bar.

DaS Energy converter and turbine become sealed unit.

Cheers

Peter

Cant You use understandable English?

I dont see what has stirling to do with hydro turbine, but I do understad benefits of CO2 use over Hydrogen, and I was intending to use it in Stirling motor.

Since You are speaking about >>piston<< and not >>engine<< or >>motor<< then perhaps You produce hydraulic presure by piston instead using steam, but then I dont see need for >>piston<< either, since expanding CO2 could press directly on water, is that not so?

Only, while Charnot Cycle should be highly effective in theory, in practice Stirlings are not so efective, as I have read on severall places. Since nobody explicitely say what IS actuall eficiency can You supply some data?

If You are talking about hydraulic pressure sytem for getting artificiall water >>head<< presure, than it is OK by me, just I would use Pelton turbine as more practicall and efective for that type of >>high head and low water quantity<< type of turbine.

Hendrick,

Your right on the button.

Original working model was Pelton, water pressure flow driven by steam.

Francis turbine greater efficiency.

Liquid Co2 pressure driven by vapour pressure Co2.

Co2 vapour pressure piston driven water.

Co2 vapour pressure is returned to liquid at condenser.

Liquid return at exhaust vapour pressure Co2.

9 bar pressure one litre per second 720 watts.

Reheat, pressure/temperature Co2 gas chart.

Cheers

Peter

My understanding of whatever it is you are trying to say would be greatly enhanced if you used complete sentences!

For example:

"Francis turbine greater efficiency"

I presume you mean: "The Francis turbine has greater efficiency than the Pelton Wheel.", but there is no way I can be sure.

"Liquid Co2 pressure driven by vapour pressure Co2."

I suspect this means something like "Liquid CO2 is driven into the turbine by the pressure of CO2 vapor, which is produced by heating the CO2.", but I am much less sure of this than the above.

Please remember that most of us who are trying to learn from these posts are not experts in your particular field, and for many, English is not their first language...

Spot on!

I never know what is too much or not enough information, and my sentance making is worse than my dot speaking.

A cylinder of liquid Co2 when heated at the top end causes vapour only at the top end. Vapour pressure build up drives the liquid out the bottom end, The liquid passes through a hydro turbine and empties into the Condenser sitting on top the cylinder. When the cylinder vapour build up is allowed to exhaust it does so upward into the Condenser forcing any liquid in the condenser back down into the cylinder where again it is heated.

Cheers

Peter

Thank You! That is significantly more understandable.

On the other hand, it is still not clear... As the liquid CO2 passes through the turbine, it must drop in pressure, to do work in spinning the turbine. Depending on conditions, this drop in pressure may or may not cause it to vaporize. Since you refer to a condenser, I must assume that it does. Now the condenser removes heat to convert it back into a liquid, at the same or perhaps even lower pressure.

What now provides the pressure to inject this cooled liquid back into the high pressure chamber?

I would say it would be more likely that if liquid CO2 vaporize (not from heating) it would produce dry snow or dry ice? It is also not clear to me how could liquid CO2 be returned to tank without pumping it, and surely part would vaporize if sprayed into bigger chamber, therefore it have to be condensed again. But turning from liquid to gaseous state would consume energy and therefore cool turbine chamber, perhaps to freezing point, but then also pressure in turbine chamber would rise and make liquid CO2 flow lessen.......

That brings us to first hurdle: to make CO2 liquid, one have to compress it, which use energy, so this energy should be subtracted from total energy produced, if any :-((

I would use water instead of liquid CO2.

I allmost described my invention, but I need money therefore I would not do it here.

If anybody would like to buy licence for using my idea, feel free to contact me!

Regards from Zagreb, the capitol of Croatia, Europe!

I believe the company is called Bio Solar. They are out of Deleware. Take a look at them. They have industrial scale Stirling Power Units

Hi All,

I believe I have a killer app. for the Stirling engine, and would
like to commercialise it (cash-in on it) before telling all.

Any ideas on how I could do this please? (do not say patents!)

Many thanks for your help.

jt.

Some times I win, sometimes I try to win.

I dont think You can patent APPLICATION for Stirling, and Stirling machines were public property patents long ago allready. Anybody with little imagination could find many applications for any energy device, problem is in efficiency of energy transform.

One could use Stirling wherever motor is neded, but must provide heat source and cooling system........

If Stirling machines would really be 97% efficient as somebody wrote in some article I read, I would rather use it then steam turbine, and I would recapture some heat off cooling side, be it for hot water or even steam production......

I also have >>killer<< ideas, but unfortunately no finances........

Since ideas are simple, if I reveal them before I get some guarantees about non disclosure, then anybody with money and even just half brain could do it :-((

So, I am also in same situation like You, And I am in one of Europe's youngest capitalist countries, and believe me it is reall >>Wild West<< here..........

Henrick14.

DaS Energy generator employs the 92% efficient Francis turbine, its total efficiency is 80%+. Its only moving part is a revolving drum of which the turbine is part of. All excess heat is water captured as it be conveyer of heat to the Co2.

Cheers

Peter

Gentlemen!

Thank you very much for the above but can we get this thread BACK ON LINE, please!

The question was (and it was a question NOT an invitation to a discussion group) where the hell do I GET ONE!

Just to help youall out some, the sort of thing I am looking for is this:- http://www.stirling.dk/default.asp?ID=121

Good guys these, have been in long conversations with them but unfortunately they are not in a position to supply until late next year.

Whilst 35kw is somewhat short of what our projected needs will be it is still much better then the other "toys" that I can find.

Need info on any other LIKE manufacture around.

THAT IS THE QUESTION.

Whilst any oppertunity to bring up Stirling for discution is very welcome, I KNOW that this is the way forward, however can we keep this until AFTER I've got me engine found.

Thanks

H

We say in Croatia: >>If we cannot do what we want, then we would do what ew can!<< :-))

Simplest way is to take TWO 35 KW units from this company.........

I am sure if You are in hurry and want to get them sooner that higher price would help: they can open whole new shift or pay workers to work overtime..............

Your not really being very helpful are you?

I am begining to think that it is that I may not be in the right place.

Yes, we ARE being helpfull, just perhaps You set Your heart too much on Stirlings so You are deaf and blind to better posibilities that open in front of You..........

Workers from factory where such Stirlings as You want are produced, and which has not web pages at all nothwitstanding, why do You think WE could get better results in web search than YOU?

We tried our best to help You more or in best way, and You are complaining?

Yes, definitely You must be in wrong place :-((

PLEASE READ CAREFULLY what has been written, You got ton of good advices, not just from ME!

Honored sir,

There is one more option that has not occured to You, asking for license for production of such Stierlings and of greater capacities from Sweden company?

Would not it be better that You make for Yourself a steam or hydraulic steam turbine like two of us recommended? It would cost You much less and You could make it as big capacity as necesary :-)) You should have allmost all You need if You are producing hydro energetic systems allready!

You need fireplace, and electricity generator with Stierling anyway, and if You make turbine then You need just boiler for steam making.........

How much would You pay for plan that would make Your company big name in electricity generation business, using resources You allready have?

I can see that you have very little knowledge of the REAL situation here in Uganda but nevertheless I thank you for your time and trouble.

I was hoping, when I posted here, to connect with a "knowledgeable" community but as we now both agree - I am in the wrong place.

Thank you.

H

Sir, I just read what You posted and suggested You best solution and proposed doing business with You.

I dont know what is real situation in Uganda, but if it is prolematical then still (if You are producing mini water electric centrals) it should be more easy to produce this on Your own than to make payment to foreign country, pay for shipping and transport, instalation etc. etc...

I am also interested in Stirling engines and I know it s not easy to find proper data.

Here http://quasiturbine.promci.qc.ca/QTStirling.html there is description of 50 KW Stierling rotational engine, so see if You could build it, or contact them to find who is producing such.......

Anyhow, if You search long enough, sooner or later (and especially later :-)) ) You shall find what You are looking for..........

So Henrik, you are interested in stirling engines?

For eight years I designed, constructed and experimented with stirling engines commercially, these were of various sizes from 500w to 25kw.

I also had a lot of dealings with various world wide stirling engineers, and one thing you need to know is that if you want high effeciencies and power outputs you need to operate with high heat (700 to 750c) within the heater heads, to get that you need an outer heat of at least 1000c.

Then you need a very efficient cooling system ie, as cool as you can get it! The higher the temperature difference between the hot end and the cool end the more efficient and more powerful engine you have, (The temp diff is called delta-T)

Now I would realy like to know what the the original enquirery is proposing as fuel to drive the stirling engine, bio-mass, natural gas or solar power? The Americans build a 35hp stirling engine that is powered by a parabolic mirror which is timed to follow the sun.

And remember Henrik, the tolerances and inner volumes in a stirling engine are of a lot higher degree than an IC or diesel engine!!!!

Spencer.

Hi Scapolie,

Did you read my previous post please?

I am looking to commercialise some ideas on Stirling engines
and ask if you could recommend any contacts or companies
who may be interested in NDA's and royalties? (only if used.)

Many thanks for your help.

jt

Sometimes I understand everything, then I regain consciousness.

Hi jt,

Just google:- "Large stirling engines", or "modern stirling engines", you will get all the data you need plus address's of the companies you can contact!

All the best,

Spencer.

Isn't there a Swedish company that makes stirling engines for submarines. They cut a piece out of the sub and insert a section with the sterling engine in it.

Hi The_curious_one,

The Swedish company, United Stiling A.B., was formed in 1968 by Forenade Fabriksverken (FFV) and Kockums Mekaniska Verkstads A.B.

FFV is a defence related industrial group owned by the Swedish government. Kockums is a large publicly owned Swedish company having it's main business in the ship building industry.

They did mount a stirling engine into a small submarine in 1986, but it was only used as an ancillory motor providing electricity, not the main propulsion unit. They also mounted two larger (75kw) stirling engines into a small coastal patrol boat and a pleasure boat, these engines were in use for 18 years and hold the world record for "time in service" for madern stirling engines.

The stirling engines I was working on were for the Norwegian military sevices, but I am bound by law from telling you what they were to be installed in! But I still have the stirling engine that I had in my own 25ft boat, this was in service for 6 years before I came back to England and I have never had to realy maintain it, except for a change of piston rings!

Spencer.

Here you go! http://www.stirlingengines.org.uk/manufact/manf/misc/subm.html

I was under the impression that they were actively marketting their stirling upgrades for diesel electric submarines and if you had one in your personal fleet you could have the job done. Please correct me if I am wrong about them still being in business.

Thanx - Paul

No cutting is required!

It is their main engine! Big Stirlings are relatively SLOW turning, so they are naturall for BIG ships and submarines.....

If You add fact that hull could be used for cooling, You get perfect circumstances, specially in case of Atomic ships and submarines, where air/oxigen for burning is not required, and one eliminate steam handling and safety problems.........

Ouststiger, If you will, research Tesla Turbine engine. Well over eighty per cent efficiency, will use any "fluid"; (water, air or burning gas,) is nearly indestructible, and best of all is easy and inexpensive to constructed.

Regards Dragon

To my Good (new) Friend Henrik14

Please forgive me - I can now see what it is that you are talking about!!!!!! Thanks to my brother back on the Isle of Man HE also has pointed me in the same direction that you have been trying to get me to look for the last 4 days or so.

https://frankgermano.wordpress.com/the-tesla-turbine/

Whilst I have always had problems actually understanding Stirling principals within 2 Min's I could to see what the Tesla Turbine is all about, having been "smacked" on the head by me Bruv".

Once again, please forgive me and thank you.

Next problem, I know for sure that I wont get one of these "off-the-shelf" so am now looking for input as to dimensions cause for sure THIS one I gota build me-self!

Thank.

H

Hi Ouststiger.

So you have problems understanding Stirling engine principals?

Then try this:- Half blow up a baloon and put it into a refrigerator, after about 5 to 10minutes take it out, what do you see?

Then place it in a warm room, now what do you see?

If you can reproduce this effect x 1000 times per minute or more then you will have a stirling engine!!!!!!!!

Spencer.

Hi! Matie

It's not "principals" that are the cause but getting something"USEFUL" to come out of them - you know? IMPLEMENTATION!!!!!!!

50kVA FROM A BALOON AND ME FRIDG? I think not!

However after a "belt" around the head from both me "brov" and Hendrik14 I am now rather very much looking at Tesla Turbine in a rather favorable light.

It would appear that in fact we may be able to produce such things (Stirling for sure we cannot hence my trying to find supply from without) however from here on in this is a new ballgame and as such "sizeing" knowledge is now what I am after.

I can see now why in a early post that Hendrik said that if we are making hydro plants then we can make Tesla Turbine's it's just that I could not at that time "stretch" me head into seeing further than a mountain as the prime power sorce for a turbine.

Be fair - "intellectual stimulation" is a bit short here in the "bush".

I stand "converted" ( I may be stubborn but when I DO change!!!!!!)

Thanks

H

Ok, I am glad that it finally dawned on You.... As You can see, relatively (some say ridiculously) small Tesla turbine is producing 110 HP! Just I must warn You to adhere strictly to Mr. Tesla's specifications, specially in case of 0.4 mm gap between plates, and take care to use better alloy for those discs as they did not have materials like we have available now, so biggest problems were that those plates tend to buckle under heat, disabling turbine in process......... I would choose Titan legure to be on safe side, but that may be overkill, so just make sure they would not bend easily under heat.

Now, how about cooperation between Uganda, India and Croatia?

If (and I have no doubts about this) You would be able to start production of Tesla turbines, we could use existing Solar steam generation units from India and generators from Croatia (or maybe ones You were installing in Your hydropower plants if they are good, but we have institute for them with 50+ years of expertise) to get small scale Solarpower Stations, and in time to go to bigger ones........ I know where we could start to sell these at once, and believe me, demand would be HUGE......

I allready have one partner from India who produce Solar dishes and use heat produced for making steam for steam owens, so it would be easy to use this steam to produce electricity too.

I hope this time You would be able to decide on cooperation more readily since You see that I really try to help You, and our coperation would help poor people of the world to get some electricity and steam owens, and I know how to make it possible that system would be working 24 hours and even endure over 2-3 rainy days without sunlight......

I also intended to use Stirlings but since everybody agree that they are not effective enough, then Tesla turbines would be best replacement, no?

Anyhow, I am offering cooperation, and I have inovative financing system that would provide funds for producing and instalation of such mini electric centrals, even if they would be combined with burning of trash as in Your case or waste straw as in case of one mushroom farm from Lebanon. So, together we can fast make Your plant and we allready have one buyer from Lebanon, and I could sell same to Nigeria, and Middle east countries too. In fact all African countries would be interested, also India and China, perhaps Mexico, and so on........

So, shall we do it?

If You decide positively, please contact me privately so I could send You draft of Agreement about cooperation, ok?

Regards from Zagreb, the capitol of Croatia, Europe!

Marijan Pollak, IT SA/SE 1st. Class, Instructor and Team Leader

Owner and director of company OBERON d.o.o. Zagreb

Email: oberon@globalnet.hr

WHOOO! Slow down Blue!

First off we're picking up after 100 years of nothing being done (Probably due to J.P.Morgan and Westinghouse "clamp-down) "ALL conspiracy theory start with TESLA".

Solar is off the menu - I know it sounds strange being on the equator but we only get sun for 50% of the day and even then most often only in the morning. This system must be "On-demand" 50Kva - 24/7 full power 100%!

I say "crop residue" as there is a little bit of information that so far I have withheld, the reason being that once I revel it EVERYONE will know I am "MAD"!

We are using WATER as the BURNING fuel! There I've gone and done it.

Are you still talking to me?

If we have cracked the problem of "cold fusion"? I don't know, all I know is that it cooks me breakfast every morning (and every other meal besides) using only 10% of the firewood it should do and producing 300% more heat than it should. And we sell more of them then we can produce!

Hence we "scale-up" our little "water fueled" cooker stove and "spud" it into (it was a Stirling but now a) Tesla Turbine and it's possible we got something special on our hands THEN we can think of reaching out to all the places you mentioned but only after we got the dammed thing working RIGHT!

Right?

Thanks

H

Sir, I must confess I dont understand what You want to say this time?

Yes, it is close to 100 years, and Tesla motor was neglected due to his preocupation with wireless transfer of energy, and at same time mass production of cars started, gasoline was cheap and prehaps those selling it wanted to sell as much as possible, so saving fuel was not what they wanted...........

Actually, conspiracy started with Project Manhattan (work on Atom bomb), but surely people holding energy business in hands would not look favourable on energy source that would be FREE for everybody, and that is what Tesla wanted to give the World...

That You get sunshine just half of the day at equator IS strange, really, but You are there while I am not, so I guess I have to believe You........

But I checked on Internet before I proposed this to You, and according to http://countrystudies.us/uganda/19.htm Uganda has plenty of sunshine, except in some regions. Perhaps You are in some such region where there is more rain then elsewhere, but then You must think on level of whole country, and even continent of Africa in regard to producing Solar Power Stations I proposed........

So, fine by me if You know exactly situation in Your area and You know what You need right now, but please think of posibilities and what You could do after this local project is finished! You see, having sunshine just half day is not so great obstacle, You just have to have enough Solar concentrators that would accumulate enough thermall energy in time when there IS sunshine, if we are talking about systems that would be able to work 24 hrs anyway, and even endure few days without sunlight like I want to produce........ I would not be surprised if You were in western parts of Uganda, that You have more rains than average, or if You are by Lake Wictoria, but You mentioned mountains so therefore You must be in northen area, but then there are mountains in the west also.........

If Uganda is not so suitable for Solarpower Stations, then think of neigbouring countries like Sudan, Kenia.........

Now, You actually say >>trash<<, not >>crop residue<<, but if it is not trash then You probably want to burn coffee hulls, which should be good fuel, but question is how much would collecting and transport cost You to get such fuel...........

As I say You know Your situation and what is ecconomic, but I remind You that I have proposed combined fuel for Your Power Plant, and additionall power produced by using Sunlight would not be neglectable, provided You have enough money to finance it. Since now You would save by making Tesla machine, perhaps You could finance it, and Tesla turbine would probably work on steam anyway, so if Indian Solar parabolic steam heaters are cheap enough, why not install them also?

I would never think You are mad, even if You produce statements like >>burning water<<, because I know that water could be electrolysed into Oxigen and Hydrogen using catalytic process cheaply, specially if You clarify what is not understandable to people lacking details of what You have in mind..........

Yes, I am still talking to You, provided it is true what You wrote about making mini water centrals, because if You know how to build those, then it os highly probable that You know what You are talking about :-)) But then if You talk about this process You described that promotes burning of fire by using little water in a box with little hole on top, then I must repeat that You have just air blown into fire, nothing else, and this same effect could be got with making different fireplace construction, which has nothing to do with water.......

Why do You say You have to make >>dammed thing working RIGHT<<? It is NOT working allways same? I would say You should measure exactly quantity of water You put inside, but then it also would depend on humidity of air at particular day.......

300 x times unity......

They said Mozart was mad...

They said Louis was mad.....

eerr... who's Louis? My uncle... actually, he was mad.

Seriously; I would propose a forum, or council of members,
who would contribute their ideas, plus whatever, to a group
who state they would be prepared to divulge / pool their ideas
and knowledge for a share of the group rewards. i.e. a company.

This would require some style legal agreement, with boundaries,
detailing the scope and limitations of the group ideas, and also
be honour bound, for each and every forum member who signs up.

Yes, there are problems. Who wants to share? Who goes first?
Who is going to rip the others off? etc. but consider....
What profit a man he gain the world, yet lose his soul.

A draft agreement could include: e.g.
1. Success limited to X ideas. (so anyone doing Y ideas is still a free member)
2. Success is equally shared among the members. (e.g. 10 members - 10% each)
3. Shareholders of a formed limited company, due to the financial input, etc.
have preference to 80% of the company assets and profitability.
4. The remaining 20% is shared to the forum in equal share (e.g.10 at 2% each.)
etc. etc. (there are several more of these but it's only "in principle" now)

Remember, nothing ventured nothing gained. 100% of nothing is still nothing;
what do we have now? Only 2% of a company could be useful and worthwhile.

This should be a new thread, and I accept it's all been "said" before.

jt.

United we can stand, alone we may fall.

Yer! O/K. Lets Do it!

BUT remember IDEAS ARE BUT NOTHING IF NOT PUT INTO ACTION!

Why sit around in the dark "playing" with yourself when there is so much USEFUL work to be done.

Thanks

H

ps. How is Uncle Louis by the way? Still useing a chickin for a hat?

Sir,

I had allready proposed forming of Fund whose member could become anyone, starting with investors, of course, and followed by about anybody else as Member.

Fund would be controled by comitee of experts in science, engineering, economy, marketing and any other relevant field, not by Members, since there would be no >>company shares<< to buy, sell or speculate with, so member with smallest amount would have same rights as member with biggest amount of money, and this would be just profit and money in Fund.

Money would be used to support inventors and their inventions in order that they start production and earn profit, after which they would have to refund money invested and give 25% of profit earned for period of 10 years afterward.

Inventors could be individuall inventors or groups of inventors and engineers, even companies......

Companies seeking of technology dissemination to poor countries like AGRO BIOGENIC from India would also be able to be nominated with their projects, as overall purpose of Fund would be development and implemantation of new technologies that would be of benefit for entire humanity and whole planet Earth, specially in rising standard of living in poor countries, specially ones with wast and so far unused resources, be it even only lot of Sunlight that could be turned to electricity, for instance.........

Governing comitee would analyse Project idea and make feasibility study, marketability study and study how particular invention would impact World and humankind generally, as if some generally usefull Projects cannot produce profit or savings by themself, other means of financing should be provided...

Before finall decision, Project could be outlined on public forum like CR4 and everybody would have chance to say if there is something impracticable about it, or why it is not good, what colaterall damage could be, or what could be done to improve it, and everyone with good point should be rewarded from fund, proportionally to usefullness of their contribution. If contribution is negative, that is, valid reason is supplied why this is bad idea that should not be even attempted, then such people should be awarded with 10% of amount that was to be invested in project, and in case it is positive, then improvement in productivity or saving on cost would be calculated and 25% paid to that person in time when project start making profit or saving money for expenses, as case may be.........

Of course any inventor or company whose project is considered for funding should have contract with such organization or company, for it should guarantee non disclosure of ideas discussed regardless if finalized as project for investment or not, and inventor should guarantee return of money invested and payment of royalty afterwards..........

Since same organization would do marketing, there would be additionall source of profit. Salary of council members and their expenses would be included in cost of each project and returned later, so this would not influence profit received by Members of Fund.

From 25% of royalty payments 1/5 should be used for functioning of organization/company and insurance payment for case where some project failed unexpectedly due to unforeseen circumstances, and as incentive for members of Council and oher unforeseen expenditures, and 4/5 would be paid on account of Fund and divided among Members.

Each project would be financed equally by each Member money, proportionall to amount of Member money compared to total money mass in Fund. Same way, amount of money equall to 4/5 of 25% of profit paid as royalty would be divided among all Members in same proportion that was in force when this project was financed, so Members with say 10% of Fund money would also bear 10% of cost of Project in question, and would then receive 10% from 4/5 of Royalty money paid to Fund.

For sake of protecting Members money, it should be kept in a Bank of state where there is no Tax on Profit or Income Tax, like Dubai, for instance.

Alternatively it could be kept in government owned Bank, ir could in time open its own Bank as applicable.....

Project financed (that is, inventors or companies financed ) would of course pay their country taxes, but as >>Contractuall obligations<< Royalty paid and cost returned are threated as expenses, therefore are not taxable as profit or income........

Financed Project owners would be obligated to become Members of Fund and invest another 25% of their profit money in Fund, which would increase money available to finance other Projects, but also would bring good income for them just as for other Members....

Since there would be no >>shares<< to own, expenses for emmiting them would be avoided, no speculation or taking ower from Members with most of money in Fund is possible, therefore no false value of shares could be fabricated nor Members could find that value dropped to zero........

Money, in form of some stable currency like Euro, would be allways posesion of Members who would be able to withdraw as much as it is not paid for cost of some project and not returned yet, while retaining rights to Royalty that would be paid by projects allready financed by this Member money.

Royalty would be added to money in possesion of Member every time it is paid to Fund, and then could be used for financing other projects, or be withdrawn by Member, or directly paid to Member without adding it to amount allready there.

I would ask just 0.1 % of cost of each project financed by using this financing system, or one thousandth, which is 1 Euro on every 1000 Euro of cost.........

I could organize it all, even provide company that would be housing this Fund and its Comitee that would be employees of company with full ingerency over investment of Fund Money and Project choosing and funding.

First Members could be Councill members and investors that I would personally introduce to system and its benefits for Members and whole World community as well.

I am sure that many people would become members after benefits and secure way of using theur money would be published, as this would be most profitable savings or pension fund in the world :-))

Anyhow, I am preparing to start it as soon as possible, so feel free to join, either as Councill member or Fund Member.......

Since informations could be sent over Internet as well as received, Council members could be from any part of the world and receive their salary and incentives there. Of course, each Councill member should have expertise in at least one field, and good references to show to become member in first place, and they could be retired, too, as it wold not be >>full time<< job anyhow.

Regards from Zagreb, the capitol of Croatia, Europe!

Marijan Pollak,

IT SA/SE 1st. Class,

Instructor and Team Leader

Owner and Director of company OBERON d.o.o. Zagreb

Founded 1st. June 1993

I've spent 6000+ hours actually more like 12,000 hours researching break throughs that have to do with energy, over the last 4 years. I have many idea's and some involve combining one break through with another to make a super breakthrough, the companies that make these probably don't know of each other. The world is big place and technology grows exponentially. I have contacts that are funded, and non funded who are bring out new technologies and systems. I never finished high School, but have learned very much about magnets, thermodynamics's, quantum physic's, etc etc. I could go on forever, but will try to keep this post short. I have boiled it down to some products that I can resell to make some quick profit, with this I can further R&D other products that are much better. I'm going to make a website soon, and other myself as a consultant. I was also going to make a section for a group like what's talked about here. I would make a website and have a message board, everyone that's invited in will have to sign an NDA and an agreement to pay sales royalties of say 3% or 8% to the association, for any product that they sell which is related to those being discussed.

I have ideas for, and know of new: engines, pumps, turbines and improved Tesla turbines. Cost effective power production, storage, and aerodynamics. There's some companies that are building Tesla turbines, and some people in their garage are too.

E-mail murph443@gmail.com

Brendan