Fuel Saving Kits

What i can say: I put one on a 94 suburban 14 months ago. When installed the vehicle was getting approx 12-14 mpg. For the past 14 months it has been reliably getting 29-31 MPG. No major modification were needed as long as a prosedure was followd reguarding when to turn the system on and off, (due to water concentration from condensation). These systems DO work, and HAVE been proven. They are only effectivly a supplimental system right now.

there are liars and damn liars and you fall in the latter catagory. It has been proven over and over that those systems are frauds. If you try to sell the sysytem you will be prosicuted.

For a third party look, go to the popular mechanics home page and search.

Of course they work. Hannibal Lechter is head of UNICEF. The US economy is the only thing saving the rest of the world from a mild down-turn. Beckham really can play soccer (OK, football). Cleveland is a fairy-tale city with lemonade fountains and money lying in the streets and the best team the NFL has ever seen.

NO! I'm lying. There is not the slightest evidence that any of the above is true. Hydrogen mileage boosters are a hoax, a scam if you have to pay money for them, and down-right bad for what ails you.

I'm sorry for your ignorance sir, I have installed them into many different cars and ALWAYS have fuel economy increases. Where is your evidence? My evidence drives hundreds of miles every day in many cities all over the west coast.

Better wipe the egg from your face and have a big slice of humble pie.

No, I'm not ignorant. I'm not terribly smart, but I do understand how gases burn, both from theory and from years of experience.

Science works like this: Nobody has to prove a negative. I don't have to prove there aren't flying saucers. I don't have to prove witches can't cast spells. I don't have to prove astrological signs are meaningless. For claims that go against accepted standards, the burden of proof, all of it - 100%, is on the person who claims it works. People often don't like that simple fact, but it is a fact.

So, show me one single time where an independent, properly certified and calibrated, lab has shown hydrogen addition to produce an improvement outside the margin of error.

Hydrogen addition is a will-o-wisp and it is gaining in popularity because of the high price and shortage of petrol. One of the few perqs of being an OF is that I've seen this happen several times now - always with a different additive - and it doesn't work. If you have found an improvement in your personal car, I accept your claim for that; I don't accept extending your claim to a general statement.

for all we know, we may be at the center of the univese. As for the world being flat, it is still considered flat for solving drainage, for land surveying, and gravity is constant.

You guys that use this lame ol crap to make yourselves sound superior just show your ignorance.

Either put up lab results or shut up.

Seriously, what does that have to do with anything?

To be perfectly fair, adamant critics (such as I) of the hydrogen fad don't usually say that there has been research that suggests that hydrogen enrichment could give a significant increase in efficiency in an engine specifically designed for lean burning. That is not to say anyone should go out and convert their standard IC engine to lean-burn (It's not terribly hard though the side-effects might be unpleasant), but rather to admit that such a possibility exists. Of course, there is still the great question of where you get the hydrogen; the ancient Anasazis destroyed all evidence of their hydrogen mines (but that's grist for another thread).

Apparently, the laws of physics cease to exist under you hood.

Peace, unsubscribe, out

Well I am ignorant on this but here is what I do know. These gadgets produce miniscule ammounts of hydrogen gas and then put it into the fuel/air mixture, correct? In High School we produced hydrogen gas for an experiment. It took all night to make about 3 cubic centimeters of gas. I am not sure how fast these gadgets make gas but I would quess not too fast. Do the math. A 350 cubic inch V8 breathes well 350 cubic inches of air/fuel mixture each revolution. If you are running at 2000 RPM that is 700,000 cubic inches of air/fuel per minute. I find it impossible to believe these "miricle devices" can deliver enough hydrogen gas to make any contribution to fuel mileage. If they made enough to make any difference they would be an explosion risk. Hydrogen gas is very explosive (I'm sure they use this in their sale pitch.)

I wonder if the RV suburban is by chance in the sales end of the devices? RV, let me know how much gas they produce per minute or hour.

I drive a small car and keep my foot out of it. Save your money.

The unit in the suburban is putting out roughly 2L/min. You have to keep in mind that it is only a supplimental system used to displace some of the gasoline needed.

I'm not selling anything, i have them in all my vehicles, my friends have them in theirs, we all just like to tinker. I really dont care if people are so hell bent on thinking they know about something which they have no first hand experience.

I do have first hand experience, i see the savings every day I go to a gas pump.

Wow! 2 liters/min! I guess they really have figured out a faster way to produce hydrogen since I was in 10th grade. How does the unit keep from blowing up the engine compartment when not using that much per minute? The 3 cubic centimeters we made created a big bang when ignited.

If you ran the 350 V8 at 3000 rpm that's over a million cubic inches per minute. 2 liters equals 122 cubic inches. So if you add 122 parts per million it increases your mileage by 2 almost 3 times. Man this sounds too good to be true! What is the catch?

I checked several units out online and was suprised how the prices are dropping so fast. I would expect if this is legit the price would be much higher, considering how much we can save on gas each week.

I still say "save your money". It just don't add up!

I wonder if consumer reports has checked this out. I put a lot of trust in their research.

The process is so simple, parts are so cheap, its easy to make one in a single evening in your garage. Those are the reasons they are cheap. Run down to your local hardware store, for the components. Your looking in the 30-50$ range. Electronics control the volume of gas output. You can pick up a standard PWM off the net for 15 bucks, which can be linked to your throttle. IE you push on the gas, the PWM frequency increases, causing the duty to increase, in turn increasing amperage (via voltage) increasing gas output.

You have to keep in mind that this method is rather simple and rudementary, Its the "brute force" method. There are better ways you can achieve higher efficiencies.

Match the natural frequencies of the water/electrolyte solution, use stepped-up high voltage, low amperage @ natural frequency (41-43KHz depending on temperature), play with plating designs to optimize surface area. there is a lot of information available on the net, just have to filter out any of it that is tied to someone trying to make money. This is something that you should be doing for fun on your own.

And it sure is fun, Anything explosive is fun, Making a gas cutting torch that runs off water, blowing up balloons and shooting them with incindiary rounds ect.

(please forgive my spelling)

What you have is a hobby, the definition of a hobby is enertainment that loses money. As long as you lose your own money, we don't care. But if you try to convience others that it is for real, I'll do everything I can to protect those that a vulnerable.

You ned to go back and read other threads or I suspect your are just the same fool that posted all the same jibberish earlier this year. Once you brought up frequency stuff.

Good luck and mind your P's and Q's on promoting your hobby as a money saving device or else you'll have some agents of the government on your door step.

Point: the auto manufacturers of the world are locked in mpg wars right now. If this stuff worked, don't you think it would be incorporated as original equipment to boost their numbers?

correct!!! I've asked CR4 to close this discussion like all other previous HHO fraud forums.

The bottom line: I have built quite a few of these cheap, simple, fun, and effective devices. I have seen dramatic improvements in my own vehicles, as well as friends. I've made torches, ran a lawnmower (only at idle) without any gasoline at all (in fact the fuel tank was completely removed). I have video of this if anyone is interested

I don't suggest for anyone to buy one from anyone or anywhere (expecially online).

I do suggest, that if anyone has an intrest (either positive or negative) in the technology, that they simply pick up some tools, and some plans, and see what it's all about for themselfs.

I simply fail to understand why anyone would be so quick to imply that I, or anyone else who has seen similar positive results would waste their time with something that does not work.

I also fail to understand how anyone could make any statements reguarding something they have no first hand experience with. Unless perhaps they are working with exxon, or the like.

Yes they are locked into a MPG war, which makes me wonder why they have made no progress. We have had cars on the road built in the 80's that get better milage than some of the so called economy cars being built today.

I'm sorry that your deffinition of a hobby, is something that must cost you money. I'm actually new to this site as of last week.

run away fast, you'll have money in your pocket. If anyone posts that they work, ask them to show LABORATORY data confirmed in an independant lab like NIST, EPA, SWR, or a good college. They will shut up then.

I'm actually working in the LAB at OIT(Oregon Institute of Technology) And should have all the data I need.

but in reality the best test is a simple, reset the odometer to zero, drive out a full tank of gas, record the milage, install the unit, repeat steps 1-4, and compare your results.

again, if you have no real knowledge or experience with these, dont pretend you do.

"I have installed them into many different cars and ALWAYS have fuel economy increases."

Of course you have, after all you sell them!

It's funny how these guys always work in pairs. One guy asks the question, then just minutes later, the other guy posts how wonderful it has worked for him.

The thing is, you can end the argument easily and once and for all. Show us independent, laboratory proof that they work. Otherwise STFU!

I'm Not selling anything, I wont sell anything, I am a working mechanical engineer. This is only a hobby of mine, I know what i see. If your unable to think a bit outside the box thats fine. But there might be a few people out there that do, i hope they have the drive to at least test, and prove or disprove this theory. I have been testing these things for over a year now, if they dident have some positive benifits i would not be wasting my time.

you need to go back and get a refresher course in thermo and basic heat and material balances. I hope you are not a registered PE, I'd have to give mine up because it would be worthless.

Not insults, just constructive critsisim