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Air Flow Around Engine Piston Rings

10/11/2008 9:11 PM

Hi! First time on this site. Here's my thoughts, followed by a question. I'm in the process of designing a free- piston engine, the piston or its rings are at no time to make contact with the cylinder wall. The piston has continuous circular rings of ceramic material. The cylinder also has a ceramic sleeve. The piston is a multi sectioned aluminum structure having a relatively large coefficient of expansion. Steps in the outer aspect of the piston would allow placement of the ceramic rings. The question is, because I feel I shouldn't box in or restict the ceramic piston rings because of the different expansion rates, if the rings were given a generous clearance with in the piston so as to float, is it possible that airflow or blowby between the ceramic rings and the cylinder wall would cause the rings to float in such a position that no physical contact would occur, basically self center themselves. If that is the case, would chamfering the rings outer edges facilitate this desired airflow thus improving the centering ability! I hope I explained myself adequately.!

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#1

Re: air flow around engine piston rings.

10/12/2008 10:59 PM

the dynamics involved are very complex. By Free piston I am asuming you mean a piston which has no mechanical connection to anything. It floats back and forth in the cylinder seperating the gasses on one side fronm the gasses on the other. In simple conception your idea of using blow bye or gas pressure to centre the ring would work, other factors limit the theories applicability. The prime additional forces to take into account are

1. pressure variations within the cylinder due to gas flow and combustion or heat transfer processes - this applies to BOTH sides of the piston

2. Gravity - this will cause the piston and ring to drop to one side

3. the holding pressure of ring against the load bearing portion of the rings groove - this will prevent the ring sliding and therefore centering

4. Any externally or internally generated inertia moments; these will move the piston and ring off centre

You can reduce all four to some degree by providing the balance pressure to the rear (side opposite cylinder wall) of the ring; rather than tangentally to the ring face.

Rolls Royce have done a lot of work in this area in their development program for gas bearings. I suggest you might want to contact them or check their patents.

Personally, I would drop the ring altogether and run a very small piston gap at operating temperature. Blowby is controlled by the length of skirt, friction by teflon coating the piston or by using a molybdenum surface coating.

Startup ( and shutdown) will be your biggest headache as you will need to supply gas pressure before the piston starts moving!

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#2

Re: air flow around engine piston rings.

10/12/2008 11:04 PM

The design of the shaft you connect the piston to will dictate what you need to do to center the piston.

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#3

Re: air flow around engine piston rings.

10/12/2008 11:05 PM

Hi Mike,

Your concept sounds fascinating, but be careful not to give away too many details on your designs, and various components. I'm not saying anyone here would steal your ideas, but maintaining a level of security is called for here, especially where precept design technologies are concerned. This is a great site to shoot ideas around, and there are enough to go 'round, but still...try to your ideas in general terms. BTW, chamfering the edges would allow less restriction in the movement, by having a smaller 'footprint'. Could you add a 'floating' ceramic ring to the edge, or would that increase the chances of pressure loss, to the combustion side?

Imintowater

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: air flow around engine piston rings.

10/13/2008 1:18 AM

If rings are expected to carry the weight of piston and transfer it to liner, as indicated the rings will get stuck and may not float.
Like in bigger compressors, piston should be supported by wrist/rider ring/arrangement and rings should be independent to float. Still the free float is subject to carbon coating, sticky oil slurry etc.

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#5
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Re: air flow around engine piston rings.

10/13/2008 1:51 AM

Further...

The available running clearance would concentrate only at the top portion of the ring . This would leads a greater force on the top half of the ring compared to the bottom half (pressure X area). Together with the self-weight of ring this force will always ensure a rub at the bottom. So availing the suggested chamfering at the bottom portion (or may be for 120 degree) of the ring sound logical.

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#6

Re: air flow around engine piston rings.

10/13/2008 2:21 AM

My interests and passions have evolved into other areas so I haven't rebuilt an engine in many years.

However, one thing I do remember was that for any specific bore there was a specific end gap needed for piston rings. If the gap was too small, the ends would touch under heating and with continued expansion you ran the risk of scoring the walls. If the engine overheated for any reason, the rings would seize.

Too much end gap eliminates the scoring and breakage but it allows for increases loss of chamber pressure into the sump.

The rings serve multiple purposes, the most obvious being that they seal the combustion chamber and promote more efficient use of the expanding gases.

They also limit the amount of lubricating oil that might be burned.

And finally, the do conduct some heat from the piston crown and thus help prevent the damage done by pre-ignition.

One piece ceramic rings have expansion rates too. A one piece ceramic ring in a bore as suggested will have no place to grow and will, under the resulting thermal expansion, exert pressure until the loads cause the ring to fail.

Lastly, the ceramics I've used are poor conductors.

You obviously have some hurdles to overcome. But persistence and a passion for one's work can create remarkable results,.

Go for it!

L. j.

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#12
In reply to #6

Re: air flow around engine piston rings.

10/13/2008 1:27 PM

Mike, "The piston has continuous circular rings of ceramic material. The cylinder also has a ceramic sleeve."


Laughing Jaguar, "One piece ceramic rings have expansion rates too. A one piece ceramic ring in a bore as suggested will have no place to grow and will, under the resulting thermal expansion, exert pressure until the loads cause the ring to fail."


Will it be possible to have the dimensions/fits of continuous circular One piece ceramic rings and ceramic sleeve such a way their expansion matches? Rings expand as well the sleeve expands with sliding clearance is not reduced objectionably?

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#7

Re: air flow around engine piston rings.

10/13/2008 2:42 AM

Free piston engine, as in friction free piston/ring-wall interface?

Friction free will come at a cost, you will loose your compression pressure down the sides of the piston, past the rings between the walls and the rings.

The rings are there to lessen the surface contact area of the piston to sidewall interface, if you wish to have zero friction between the moving part and the wall, then there is no need for rings, but also what will stop the piston from its sideways movement? if your running the piston-conrod-crank approach, then the piston will have lateral forces from the conrod-piston angles (greatest when the crank is at 90 degrees to the running plane of the piston) this is another area where you will get piston to sidewall friction.

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#8

Re: air flow around engine piston rings.

10/13/2008 2:45 AM

I think a free piston engine have better features to keep into some kind of self-alignment:did you first asked how a common engine gets so when the piston is pulled or pushed by outlines forces?I should adecuate the lower part of piston bellow the rings grooves, for sliding in the cilinder surface,then,i should use common metallic rings those you can get in all sizes in any shop (same for pistons).Commonly people thinks they know how a piston ring works:They don't(commonly).Really different than hidraulics plastics seals:learn about this because none of the clearences are chosen by taste:may be you can get "engineering design" by P.Ordov in case you want make piston and rings by youself.Watch rings grooves are made in different material than piston,you know why?.In every case you must try avoid any air flow thru the rings:the only airflow leakage is because the metallic rings are open to keep some pressure by its elasticity against the cilinder until the pressure inside the cilinder do that job thanks to some clearance

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: air flow around engine piston rings.

10/13/2008 3:07 AM

You will get more "blow-by" in a cold engine than in a warm engine, as the rings have not heated and expanded to almost close the gap.

If the piston ring gap is too small (new piston rings and have not taken time to properly gap them) will expand under combustion chamber temperatures, collide, then bind between the piston and wall, and either wear the ring/wall interface, or shatter.

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#17
In reply to #9

Re: air flow around engine piston rings.

10/14/2008 6:43 AM

The metallic rings needs be open to put them in their grooves in first place; some of them have some enough stiffness and others needs an spring in the internal side;is true temperature determines a minimal gap...I don't know what to call the primary reason..

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#20
In reply to #17

Re: air flow around engine piston rings.

10/14/2008 11:01 PM

Some rings I have seen are like a spring, but without space in the crossing coils, much like a "Thread Saver" or "Heli-coil" these don't run a gap as the "ring" is a coil of wire.

The ones with a "Internal spring" are the oil control rings with spacer (if this is what your talking about)

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#10

Re: air flow around engine piston rings.

10/13/2008 4:15 AM

http://www.mooretool.com/

Hi,

something similar to your idea is realised in the weight relieve of the vertical guide of their ultraprecison turning and grinding machines.

But this is operated only at room temperature and with very slow velocity and leakage is existing and depending on gap.

In reality you will need a piston ring that is working as an "air-bearing" or fluid-bearing.

If there is enough oil on the cylinder-liner to fill a gap then this may be a fluid-bearing

if there is no oil this may be a gas-bearing.

Centering can be done by the structure that has to be machined (few micrometer depth) on the circumference of the ring. This will act as a radial-bearing with some considerable stiffness. But no tilt stiffness unless two these rings with some distance.

I doubt that this is possible as piston rings - tolerances are likely to be too stringent.

May be possible in a totally ceramic piston. (No rings).

Biggest problem is the thermal expansion to be isotropic and not changing too fast.

RHABE

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#11

Re: air flow around engine piston rings.

10/13/2008 7:58 AM

Have you given any thought to how your experimental assembly will be able to center it self while on any other than the compression stroke?

Also, excessive gas in the crankcase will promote big problems. On larger engines, this is the cause of most crank case explosions

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#13

Re: Air Flow Around Engine Piston Rings

10/13/2008 4:44 PM

Unless the piston/cylinder are oriented vertically, gravity will cause piston(rings) contact with the bottom of the cylinder. The only manner to avoid this inevitability is to supply a buffer fluid-either liquid or gas- to the bottom section of the piston to 'float' it off the cylinder wall. This would require an external pressure source for the buffer fluid, which could be introduced along the bottom of the cylinder through either small holes or slits. A ceramic cylinder might be suitable for etching/laser perforation to 'leak' the buffer fluid into the desired location, with circumferential collection grooves past the piston ring travel limits to channel the buffer fluid out of the cylinder. While this kind of arrangement WILL work, it requires a bit of experimentation to get the geometry and flows right. Stable operation would greatly simplify the control, while varying loads/speed will make control problematic. One could use a Hall Effect probe at the likely contact surface to detect incipient contact and increase buffer fluid flow. Good Luck

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Air Flow Around Engine Piston Rings

10/13/2008 8:46 PM

I understand that gravity could cause the floating ring to settle to the lowest point, the bottom. Using some sort of fluid buffer, if I understand you right, would end up being consumed during combustion? Did I mention that combustion occurs on both sides of the piston! The whole reason to avoid ring/cylinder contact is to do away with lubrication the would make the engine ' dirty' and not acceptable by todays standards.

I just had some thoughts, what if the rings themselves were fashioned differently so as to compensate for gravity, say, chamfering on the lower portion and not on the top, or having an external air source to bleed in the piston itself so as to lift the inner circumference of the top side of the ring. I guess if the engine was used where different attitudes were involved regulating this air flow could be a challenge. I have been steering away from firmly fastening the ceramic ring in place believing that because of the different expansion rates between aluminum, the intended main material of the engine, and ceramics ( alumina) could cause ring cracking with failure. My understanding of ceramic material is that it is hard but brittle. If one could deal with the aluminum piston expansion while maintaining the centering of the ceramic ring things could work.

My origional thought was that in nature things want to come to a state of equalibrium, if these rings were light in weight do you think the force of gravity would exceed that of the very high pressures that would tend to equally space the ring within the cylinder. This progect might just be one of those cases that experimentation would give us the answer.

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#16
In reply to #14

Re: Air Flow Around Engine Piston Rings

10/14/2008 4:08 AM

A.The floating ring will not settle at the lowest point as there are high radial and tilting forces from dynamics and combustion.

B. To avoid contact would be best, no doubt.

C. If you think about rings I would try anodised aluminum.

D. Try to think about ringless machines. Is there a possibility to have radial gaps of 10 to 20 µm gap-width that are changing by temperature not more than 10 (20)%? This will require very accurate machining.

RHABE

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#22
In reply to #14

Re: Air Flow Around Engine Piston Rings

10/26/2008 12:34 AM

I'm guessing you don't have plans for using a six pac carb setup like MOPAR did many years ago. hee hee!

Is there any chance of using extremely small amounts of lubrication instead of none? Zero clearance is a lot different than extremely close tolerance. That looks like a tall order. The efficiency of oil lubrication for sealing of the cylinder would be hard to overcome.

Sounds like you have this idea very well thought out.

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#15
In reply to #13

Re: Air Flow Around Engine Piston Rings

10/14/2008 3:56 AM

"gravity will cause piston(rings) contact with the bottom of the cylinder"

The radial forces from slight form deviations are much higher than gravity force, so the gas-bearing has to have load capability and stiffness that is bigger than these radial forces.

"This would require an external pressure source"

External pressure is one possibility but the advent of the herringbone bearing (Muiderman in late 1960ies) and the step bearing (Mitchell) changed this situation. These types are self-pumping bearings that need some velocity to act. There have been many solutions with gas, liquids or grease as "lubricant". Most modern hard disc drives have oil lubricated bearings of the herringbone type.

RHABE

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#18

Re: Air Flow Around Engine Piston Rings

10/14/2008 2:00 PM

Just how will you extract any power if it has combustion on both sides of the piston?

What will push the piston on the compression stroke?

Better find a good supplier of Virtual Piston Rods, Virtual Crankshafts, Magnets, Mirrors, and Smoke!

You will also need a Quantum Computer for the controller!

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: Air Flow Around Engine Piston Rings

10/14/2008 4:46 PM

Sorry Bill, but I think you have missed the mark. This engine that I'm modelling mine after did run and very well I might add. I guess part of the lack of your understanding is that I'm not at liberty to divulge too much in the way of detail without comprimising what I'm doing. Energy or power comes in many forms, namely in my case the production of high velocity high temp and high pressure gasses, no ' smoke or mirrors required ' !, just imagination and persistence!

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#21
In reply to #19

Re: Air Flow Around Engine Piston Rings

10/14/2008 11:03 PM

Would this be similar to the "Stirling engine" I think the principle your talking about is similar, they use them in some Submarines for quietness.

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