China, Mexico or the U.S? Who's winning?

Several of the points you've made lie within the context of what I'm trying to get across..We're definitely on the same page.

-We have failed to instill major change into the education system..especially at lower levels that prep for college. Instead we as a society have begun to allow ourselves way too much slack time...and are far lacking in the motivations required to take "the step up" we implied when we began to put the globallization of ecomomy into place. Funny how somewhere along the line, society has begun to wait for it to be handed to us. Generations before us created the "industrial revolution through hard work and determination..do we have it in is to repeat history?

-People have preached the "one job per life" sermon to me my whole life...but happy to say I never fell into that mold. Life is about quality, not conformity... I was never one to accept the premise,"ok...you make enough now,so be happy"..when it became an issue, I moved on. If not for these changes, I would likely have been left at half of my current income...and funny to say..the company I am using in comparison closed its doors last year. Loyalty is honorable...humility is shameful.

Back to arrogance...you hit the nail on the head here. Perhaps humility will get us to step up and meet the challenges before us. Only time will tell...

Meaning no disrespect, but individuals go to school for training, not governments. There are plenty of classes and schools available where I live. They are certainly not being filled by adults trying to stay up on their skills.

We can Blame the govt, Democrats, or the free traders, but in the end, each of us has to look at what we did with the time we were given, and if it involved watching sports on television instead of learning accounts payable, or metallurgy or plc logic, well, , it isn't really the govts arrogance that was responsible for that decision.

Personally I'd like to blame the unions for creating disincentives to improve ones skills, but that would be declasse...

milo

Agreed. We have met the enemy and he is us. --Pogo

The error the western countries did is to consider that intelligence is "west". In fact every body sees to day that "intelligence" is every where only knowledge is not every where available and when knowledge is gained results are as good as in our countries after a time needed to get a special way of thinking (quality orientation, aso).

What was said is correct less arrogance and more humility will be good and bring success.

My daughter gets by on 6 hours of sleep each nught due to excessive homework assignments. Her backpack weighs around 80 lbs each day when she brings it in with the books etc. One thing we do not need is more self styled "experts" telling us that more homework is the answer. What is the answer? Hell, if I knew that I would be president.

Your daughter is lucky if she attends a school where that much homework is required. That, however, is not the norm.

http://www.brookings.edu/opinions/2001/0826education_loveless.aspx?rssid=lovelesst

Are we winning? One of the manufacturers near my home town will be moving a large part of its assembly work to Mexico, and the same company outsources bracket and mounting hardware design work to China. I think this covers both areas of the education spectrum being discussed. It does however keep their stateside engineers up to date and puts them through Grad school when needed.

But this is one of few companies that offers this from what I have heard.

I am a process and robotics engineer.. and I can honestly say that the japanese have paid for several of the classes I needed.. to go from being an ordinary joe with minimal experience to someone who teaches plastic injection and robotics to the technical support people around me.

I can also say that in respect to on-the job training...Many of the techniques I use are Japanese-borne with a touch of American ingenuity. But not all...decoupled molding was an American brainstorm that literally changed plastic injection from an "artform" to the science it is today.

I read an article last night that touched on the fact that China owns a good portion of our national debt (which the article pointed out that they like to "remind us" from time to time).

Of course, I can only speak for the plastics industry... but much of my income over the last 8 years was paid to me by a foreign entity....not American. There was a time when the Japanese were ridiculed for their poor quality...their product literally sucked. Now their quality and techniques are some of the best in the world. And trust me...I'm making that call from experience. I've been in automotive production for nearly 20 years now...I've worked both sides of the coin. Do I think that they are better at engineering than we are? No, not in the least... I just think they are currently more committed to methodology (scientific molding, Kaizen, 5s, etc.) than we've been.

The big 3 (automotive) just approached the federal government asking for a bail out..all 3 are suffering because of huge losses in production volumes. Remember the old slogan, "Buy American"? Are they suffering because we allowed foreign import of automobiles? I'm sure that there are many who would use this as a bargaining chip. Or with union demands, and constant annoyance of recalls...were foreign investors able to produce a better product at lower cost? I guess my biggest point here is WHY companies are choosing to move to China and Mexico... quite specifically..to reduce production costs and remain globally competitive. Unfortunately, I think that quality levels have stayed the same..not because we don't particularly care, but because we forgot what we stood for...continuous improvement.

We have to take a brutally honest look in the mirror and ask the question..are they increasing their marketshare based on quality and output? Or is there just a global hatred for Americans so much that in a global economy they'd buy an inferior product? One..the other..maybe both. I only know that our nation needs to adapt and excel...or be prepared to be surpassed.

...but before all the naysayers jump up, and start throwing stones, rocks and tomatoes while screaming the lyrics to "America the Beautiful"...I'm not here to degrade our way of life as we had known it. It has brought us alot of success for many years. I'm just a realist...who knows that we are paddling against a tide in danger of drowning.. as our boat sinks from wear and overuse. A boat that always made us feel comfortable..but now is the biggest reason we are threatened. Either we get a bigger and better boat, or we "swim with the fishies". Our methods worked for over a generation... but we cannot compete globally using the same old protocols. We need to stand up...brush off the dust.. and react with the force of will.. the same determination we have had in the past whenever we were confronted with a challenge. It is time for us to climb outside of the box again...so we can think fresh and new.

I still say we aren't down and out...we've proven we have the determination and skillsets to outperform the competition. We are survivalists. I'm not lobbying for..or against..a global market. I only know that if we expect to keep ourselves from seeing a shift in economic power...we'd better roll up our sleeves and get crackin'. Times are a'changing, and we'd better keep up...

Another well reasoned answer.

"I guess my biggest point here is WHY companies are choosing to move to China and Mexico... quite specifically..to reduce production costs and remain globally competitive. "

And also to be where the growth in market is / will be.

milo

Who is winning? I'll tell you who is winning in one word GREED. I could go in with a lot of reasons why but I'll let the readers decide.

For another look at GREED, consider Walter Williams, George Mason professor of economics.

Quote:

What about complaints about CEOs earning so much more than the average worker? Before looking at CEOs, let's look at another area of huge pay differences. According to Forbes' Celebrity 100 list, Oprah Winfrey earned $260 million. Even if her makeup person or cameraman earned $100,000, she earns thousands of times what they earn.

Among the celebrities earning hundreds or thousands of times more than the people who work with them are: Steven Spielberg ($110 million), Tiger Woods ($100 million), Jay Leno ($32 million) and Dr. Phil ($30 million). According to Forbes, the top 10 celebrities and athletes earned an average of $116 million in 2004 compared to an average of $59 million earned by the top 10 corporate CEOs.

Something to consider.

In response to GREED... here is what I consider interesting revelations to that aspect: do a keyword search for Bildeburg Group, Big Tom Tucker or Alex Jones talk show host... pretty unnerving stuff!

Great responses on this topic... :

http://www.4plastics411.com

quote: some folks get all spun up if they don't have a seat at the table

I think you you hit the nail on the head. Too many people are worried about what others are doing rather than taking care of their own business, and making a success out of what they have.

I like the "kiddie table" analogy...very well put...

4plastics411com

The title is a very short view field, narrow sight.

Why say who win? My answer is all win.

do you know On Game? the best strategy is all win.

"Why say who win?"

...because the majority (IMO) of the US has an obsession over being #1 and many are worried they are losing thier place on the top of the heap.

The US has no hope of winning a race with China. China has far too many resources and likely owns too much of the US debt. The country is in trouble economicaly and it isn't just going to go away with some economic bailouts and happy propoganda telling the world thier economy is ok. They can not continue to spend billions spreading thier military reach, securing thier oil supplies and "pursuing terrorism" when thier own house falls aorund thier ears. Well they can... but what happens when thier taxpayers lose houses and jobs; where will they get thier billions for the war machine then?

IMO they need to let these companies that got themselves into trouble, get themselves out of trouble or fold. Bailing them out will not help the average Joe much as the majority of the economic assistance will be gobbled up by corporate executives and shareholders. The average Joe will see very little or no benefit IMO.

China has been sitting quietly at the back of the bus for many years and I think they have finally had enough and are moving up. Move over US the sleeping dragon is on the rise.

I think a valid point to make here is the size of China's population. Everyone gets all google-eyed over the current state of the economy...but what they fail to realize is the market potential of China, once "the sleeping dragon" wakes...

I personally don't care whether we are #1 or not... what I care about is whether at the end of the day, my wage is better or worse. We've developed a trade relationship with China, and that is where it stands...

GM was one of the largest financial entities in the world... is financing them in a crisis going to pull them back from the brink? I think not...we pulled Chrysler back, and they recovered...under the new management of Lee Iacocca... when Iacocca left...boom, right back to failure. When a management team fails... you can't throw them money...bc they've already proven there ability to fail...and they will fail again.

Perfect example... all the lottery ticket winners that end up broke again, and in bankruptcy...why? Because they are not taught how to use the money and to keep it working for them.

GM's status changed when their quality standards slipped, and foreign entities such as Honda and Toyota began producing a better product. If we ever hope to gain our standing and financial status back...then we need to rethink our quality systems and develop methods of producing better product at lower cost. You can't tell me it can't be done... because the Japanese have already done this.

Regardless of what position any one of us hold here on this topic...greed, #1 obsession, arrogance, the wealthy get wealthier, whatever... we are all on the same side of the coin. Our economy is suffering, and we need to develop new approaches to our production methods. You are not going to change the fact that our products are being produced in China or Mexico... we are already vested in these practices and there is no out. The only thing that any of us can change is how we utilize these markets and leverage them. Somehow, we have to step "outside the box", and develop solid approaches to our product design and production methods...

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