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Expired Paints

11/24/2008 5:57 AM

If a paint has crossed its expiry date (12 months from date of mfr), for how many days it can be still used ? Paint is

a) Alkyd based Red Oxide Zn Phosphate

b) Synthetic enamel

Is there any test that can be done in house to ensure usability (eg adhesion, holiday etc)

Will these tests be enough to ensure usability or they will pass tests at our works and fail when the equipment is in use ?

We are OEMs and can not take the risk, but do not want to waste when it is not necessary also have a problem with HSE about disposal.

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#1

Re: Expired Paints

11/24/2008 6:04 AM

If it's for commercial use then follow the manufacturers recomendations.

If it's for home use... if it's liquid it's fine.

Del

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#2

Re: Expired Paints

11/24/2008 9:09 AM

If the containers are intact and the paint has been stored in a cool environment you will be able to use the paint for some time. Heat's a killer. Chemical reaction rates double for every 10 degree rise in temperature.

It MUST be shaken to redistribute the fillers.

There are tests for paint cure and adhesion. Fed-Std 595 is a place to start. Or contact your supplier and ask him how he tests his product. You don't have to tell him why you are asking. Of course, you should already know all this if your company has any kind of tech staff!!!! You apparently don't test these materials yourself.

If you have fresh paint, a side by side test would tell you lots.

The simplest test involves painting a test panel, curing it, then scribing an X in the paint with a knife. Place a high quality tape strip over the X and pull the tape off. You'll need a 4 1/2# rubber roller to properly apply pressure to the tape. If any paint comes off with the tape, you'll know you have an adhesion problem, perhaps caused by age, perhaps not.

Is the reputation of your company worth the risk?

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#3

Re: Expired Paints

11/24/2008 10:59 AM

Our company deals a lot with material extension. Normally it's done contacting the suppliers, and asking for recommendations. For paints, normally an adhesion test comparing to a new one is enough. For adhesives, sometimes we get a full revalidation when the original ones were not opened. In some cases, no way...

Contact your supplier first of all. Put a little commercial pressure on them. If you'd like to use the product, take them to assume this responsability with you, in the name of a long and healthy sommercial relationship.

...and if after this he tells you they will not assure the performance, well, what is more expensive, disposal or company reputation?

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#4

Re: Expired Paints

11/24/2008 11:14 PM

Depends if its Striped Paint, or Plain Paint!

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#5

Re: Expired Paints

11/24/2008 11:34 PM

I'll insert my first two-cents deposit before things get too outta control here.

While it is certainly true that proper mixing is vital, given the inevitable settling of pigments, and separation of resins and vehicle ... advice regarding "Tape-Adhesion" (or other adhesion-type) testing, Pencil (or other) hardness tests, etcetera, are going to be of little use*** unless additional info is known.

You state that you are the OEM-user. So: "What is the Paint Specification"? On what sort of surface Profile is it applied, upon what kind of primer, to what kind of substrate, adhering to what Surface Cleanliness Standards, and what will the (environmental) exposure be after curing, and what kind of Performane Guarantee must be met...?

*** such advice (above) all falls under the category of "I heered-telluh-sich-a-thing oncet-upon-a-time, so it MUST apply here as well!"

Watch out especially for any advice to use "X" brand of thinner in such-&-such quantity, then apply in "such-and-such" fashion (that is, UNLESS that's EXACTLY what the paint mf'r suggests...!)

Today's highly edumacated polymer chemists know what they're doing when they specify ONLY a certain Brand & "Number" of thinner to be used with their paints or protective coatings. That advice is NOT simply to promote Sales of that particular thinner. It is to insure that you get the full performance that can be extracted by PROPER mixing and application of their (paint) product.

Now ... if you don't necessarily NEED to achieve the FULL potential of which that paint might otherwise be capable ... we can talk some of that "experimentation"...

Best Regards to all ~ If you're in the U.S., have a GREAT Thanksgiving...!

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Expired Paints "PS"

11/24/2008 11:46 PM

"PS"...Re: "So: What is the Paint Specification?"

I sat through a great seminar-lecture a few years back, in which was mentioned the tidbit that follows...

Can anyone (here) answer WHY chunks of foam came off the shuttle, taking-out a smidge of the wing's leading edge ... costing the lives of many dear astronauts, and countless millions in pecuniary losses...?

It was in large part due to the fact that there WAS NO SPECIFICATION for the application of same...! Whoever penciled-in the act of "insulating-the-tank" decided that it just wasn't important enough to require any special preparations, or training of the applicators, or specialized inspection of the finished product .

You can BET YOUR LIFE that such specification NOW exists.

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: Expired Paints "PS"

11/25/2008 9:04 AM

Since I first heard about the foam problems, I've wondered why they dont use small beads of foam held on with a low-adhesion material. They don't really need the foam once the shuttle takes off so, if the foam fell off in the first few seconds, while the shuttle's speed was low, there would be no damage done and the contents wouldn't be in the tank long enough for heat transfer to be a problem. Ideally, the foam and adhesive should be bio-degradable.

Asking a lot? How much does it cost to repair the damage?

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Expired Paints "PS"

11/25/2008 9:52 AM

"...small beads...held on with a low-adhesion..." What a truly OUTSTANDING concept!

Don't know just how Workable it might be, at this stage of materials technology (seems easy enough, though)... but the idea goes HAND-in-HAND with a project my father was proudly involved with; the flex-seal (steerable) nozzle for Trident Missile's 3rd stage. Instead of fighting the 'dependability-woes' of various configurations, design it so as to ALLOW it to "self-consume" (at a controlled rate, of course)...!

Has worked out just as perfectly as intended ...

[ndt-tom "on-the-road"...]

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Expired Paints "PS"

11/25/2008 10:10 AM

Ah... but just imagine you are the poor guy sticking 'em on...You get to the top..sticking on the last one, you sneeze...and they all fall off .
Del

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Expired Paints "PS"

11/25/2008 10:58 AM

Just some job security...

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#12
In reply to #8

Re: Expired Paints "PS"

11/25/2008 11:02 AM

"How much does it cost to repair the damage?"

From our sole example, the cost includes seven astronauts and an entire space shuttle. Seems like a potentially proactive, workable solution. Have you suggested it to NASA where it could do some good?

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#7

Re: Expired Paints

11/25/2008 8:54 AM

There are tests to evaluate extending shelf life, and as recommended already, contact the supplier/manufacturer to find out what the actual tests for their product are. Nobody else will know more about it.

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#13

Re: Expired Paints

11/25/2008 11:20 AM

a) I though some paint man will be here

b) This is a single component pack (Normal Zinc Phosphate Red Oxide primer)

c) main problem is the disposal of the paint. Any Idea how to dispose ?

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Expired Paints

11/25/2008 11:24 AM

If you are in the USA, I know all the details and will be happy to share. What is your location? If not in USA, I can give general guidance, but not specific requirements.

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#15
In reply to #13

Re: Expired Paints

11/25/2008 12:57 PM

I have done some paint formulation over the years. It is pretty hard to answer your question without being able to examine the paint and doing some tests. Generally alkyds are fairly stable if kept in a closed container. Getting rid of the stuff may be expensive.

Got anything around the plant you could paint? Sometimes you can check with different distributors that specialize with surplus or out of date stock, it may be possible to sell it off very cheap and save yourself disposal costs.

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#16

Re: Expired Paints

11/28/2008 8:50 AM

All the expiry date is saying is "If used after this date, the paint manufacturer will not cover its use with any warranty."

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