Laser Ice Removal System

I would think this type of system would require far more power than would be fesable for a mobile application.

Thanks for your reply. I work in a laser application industry and have seen many different types of material being processed in all sorts of ways. However, I have not seen anything done in regards to evaporizing water or ice. When I mentioned it to a colleague, he kind of looked at me funny! But I think it could be possible, using a very small wattage (100 watt) laser with a series of nozzels aimed at the pavement. I intend to look into the matter more intensly.

Regards,

Dano

How about working on one that could quickly remove ice and frost from my windshild?

That could be another application to build into the system. I'll keep working on it!

Not a good idea. Won't be safe for your eyes, or anyone else's in the car.

speaking of not being a good idea,

what is the power rating of a laser speed gun.

The reason why I asked, is that a while back a police officer said he was temporary blinded by a laser key chain of which the court sided with him.

even though I agree that those things are not toys, i'm just curious.

All the speed guns I've seen are radar-based; no laser involved.

Interesting, I think the, Mythbuster had a trial to see if they could foil both of them.

And of course, we know how professional they are.

It's deffinately interesting. As i do not work (and never have) with lasers (but do find them quite interesting) I don't know what is really feasable or not. but 100 watts isn't much energy considering melting snow on pavement while moving at X ammount of speed. But interesting.

we dont want to blind or burn anybody now.

One of the engineers has told me that it would indeed require a great deal of power to evaporate a large area at once, but what about using a smaller amount of energy in every vehicle, that over a given amount of time (depending on the amount of traffic) would eventually clear the roadway? Kind of a "group effort".....

Danopat,

Cars already have a system that provides 100's if not 1000's of watts of radiant IR directed at the ground. It's called the exhaust system. I'd say that this delivers more energy to the ground than your proposed system, and is not very effective at clearing highways.

JohnDG has gone into some of the thermodynamics, but the situation is much worse than his calculations, as he has assumed an ideal case. First, energy is required to bring the ice up to the melting point. Energy is then required to melt the ice (as calculated by JohnDG). But liquid water on the road does not help. It would simply refreeze. So then you really need to vaporize the water, which takes about 2,000 Joules/cc.

So, to build on JohnDG's calculations assuming the surface is at -5C:

5g x 4 J x 5C= 100 joules to just bring 5 cc from -5C to 0C.

1665 J to melt the ice

10,000 J to vaporize 5 cc.

100 + 1665 + 10,000= 11,765 J

11,765/100 = 118 seconds at 100 watts.

And all this is only true if the water were totally insulated from everything. The ground is a huge heat sink, and it is likely that you would need much, much more energy to overcome trying to heat the surface.

Also, assuming that all of the laser light is absorbed by the water is a poor one. Only a small amount of laser light would be actually be absorbed by the water.

Tad

Hello Danopat:

you could have something there you know. But, then I suppose some goody goody with mention radiation and it will stop?

Good thought though. I do think it might take a whole lot of power, certainly more that the 100 w was it? But, if a machine similar to the sidewall cleaners we have now can do it with all the available battery power. It has to be worth it? Someone has to know what frequency would work best? I personally would go with a blue end range laser. Much shorter wavelength in my thoughts it would be like hits it (the water particles) with a knife, rather than perhaps a blunt still of the red end range of lasers? But, that is purely guesswork!

Take care..............

... and don't forget the terrible efficiency of lasers! A 125W laser I worked with a year or two ago required over 3KW of power input, not counting the power required to run the water chiller. Of course if you are melting snow, the chiller could probably be reduced to a pump and fan.

I applaud you (GA) for being bothered to do the maths for something which we all really knew, deep down, in our heart of hearts was glaringly obvious... but were to lasery to mention .

Maybe some sort of thermonuclear device on a stick would work?

Del

"Maybe some sort of thermonuclear device on a stick would work?"

Sounds like a nifty new KrisDel product. However, I'm working on a prototype now and plan to beat you to market. Hum, my only problem is to generate the 1.21 gigawatts required. Perhaps, a Mr._Fusion unit. I'm going to contact Solomon Azar, the Messiah, and see if we can pull this off for free.

Of course, my big problem now is capital, and I can guarantee over 1000% return on your investment. So, there's a big queue, but send your funds to:

Prophet Brickie

box 1955

co AIG

NY, NY

TRULY- global collapse leads to global nuclear war for monkey planet- a shame for I have found energy solution but not understood by chimpanzee that only throws feces from cage behind terminal- maybe the death of their children will they become humble-let them witness the skin melt off their bodies and sick from radiation- both god and I contemplate this now as next event to humble the monkey intoa a child of god that loves one another- their brothers keeper- yes- maybe this is what is required for the monkey planet

Is that you Solomon? Good to hear from you. Save the planet yet?

Hello Del,

Just to say have a wonderful holiday!

Good legwork there John, ga. As stated, it takes a LOT of energy to melt, let alone evaporate ice. And even if you did, more water would flow in and freeze solid, making black_ice, the worst of all.

I was attracted to this discussion because, living in a snowy, icy, part of the world, it would be great to find an alternative to using millions of tons of rock salt on our roadways every year.

Hello Danopat,

This is the nearest I have found to what you ask. It is a guide not a ice clearer though.

Laserline Mfg.
Guidance laser

Laserline's new GL3000C Wing Plow Guidance Laser uses an ultra-high-visibility laser to establish wing plow trailing edge location. The ultra-bright green laser spot impacts on the road/snow surface ahead of the truck and shows the driver where the wing plow trailing edge will be, making it possible to avoid costly property and plow damage and reduce downtime.

Hello Danopat,

Good Luck.................

Hi Danopat,

I had the idea of this in 2003 just now pursuing. These are the ones I found for inventions. Any progress? And I think people are over thinking the issue. The environmental issues solved are great and the dangers are very minimal except a gas line in the street but that is solvable.

Go back and study John's post #11!. Then extrapolate that to the size of a road...

Hello Danopat,

First you would have to find what wave lengths are absorbed by Ice. I have a feeling many will be reflected or transmitted through with low absorption rates - 1-2%. Multiply that by 5 to 35% Laser efficiency and you are wasting your time and a whole lot of power.

After finding the better frequencies you will have to choose a system that is efficient and cost effective at the higher absorption rates. Hopefully a lower frequency LED Laser.

I've been out of the Laser loop for years so I sure there is many more selections now but the absorption of your target is your first consideration.

Brad

Hello U V:,

Hope you are fine?

The problem with lasers is, you will have to have a very short focus because, everything you do to clear ice and or snow it entirely 'on the surface' and, does not disturb or damage any structures, Plants paving stones, stones and aggregate where ever it may be, paint, cables, etc, which just could crack or get gradual damage over the months the laser is used. And if the focus was several cm or inch, you have no idea what is happening to subsurface things.

Right, that is my spleen cleaned.........What do you call a dear with no eyes?

Take care..............

I would like two or three on my car with a pan-and-tilt or a directional mirror capability to take care of tailgaters. Maybe one on my Harley-Davidson to act as a deterrent to anyone pulling out in front of me. If you knew in advance that you would be blinded permanently by the laser mounted on the bike you are pulling out in front of, you might think twice. It would be tit-for-tat because there are so many motorcyclists have received serious injuries from drivers who "just didn't see the motorcycle." Now they "just can't see anything."

Yea, I like the idea, unfortunately you would probably have to tow around a GE F7A gas turbine to get the power necessary to operate with any effectiveness for snow and ice removal. This project is pie-in-the-sky idealism. The reality is people would use it offensively rather than its intended use. Remember how the chinese invented gun powder, used it for fireworks and fun? The British (I believe) came in and took the gunpowder and made guns with it. If you don't think something like that will happen you must live in a bubble. Think about batteries, we could make Plutonium batteries that would last forever, but while we listen to our Plutonium powered I-PODS, some one will explode an atom bomb here.