Previous in Forum: Installing Circuit Breakers and Current Transformers   Next in Forum: Ohms Law Problem
Close
Close
Close
12 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Participant

Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1

Electricity from Lemons and Limes?

12/22/2008 12:46 AM

My 8 year old son needs to do his first science project. He chose to test whether limes or lemons produced more electricity then the other. I have not the faintest idea how to figure out how to set up the apparatus necessary to test this. Nor do I know how to search on the internet how to find how to set it up. I typed in lemons and electricity and found this website.His teacher is of no help at all. It all must be done at home with the teacher just showing them an example of what the completed project should look like. So, it is up to the parents to teach and guide thier child through it. I am at a loss. I am a single mom and know no one who knows anything about electrical stuff. Can anyone help me? Thank you, Nicole. e-mail- monpetiteamourjj@yahoo.com

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Anonymous Poster
#1

Re: electrical apparatus

12/22/2008 8:04 AM

Try Googling "Lemon Battery" You will get a lot of websites.

After you have a good understanding of how to build a "Lemon Battery" the lime battery will be pretty much the same.

To determine which can produce the most electricity you can measure a few things.

1) Open circuit voltage, This is the voltage that you measure directly across the terminals with nothing else connected.

2) Output Power, connect a resistor across the terminals and measure the output voltage. Start with a 1000 ohm and reduce (or increase if needed) the value until the voltage drops by about 10% from the open circuit voltage. Output power = Voltage * Voltage / Resistance.

These are not exact methods but they should be more than enough for a young child's science project - the rest is in the presentation - that may include understanding what voltage and power are, at least to an elementary level.

Radio Shack or any electronics store can supply the components and meters you need.

Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - Organizer Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Engineering Fields - Nuclear Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2969
Good Answers: 33
#2

Re: Electricity from Lemons and Limes?

12/22/2008 9:06 AM

The folks on Mythbusters did something like this, but with other fruits and vegetables. You might want to check out their web site and poke around a bit.

Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: EB, SF Bay Area
Posts: 10
#3

Re: Electricity from Lemons and Limes?

12/22/2008 11:50 PM

Hmmm... To produce an electricity you need to stick to the fruit couple of different conductors, say copper wire and a graphite (from pencil), or to collect juices from them to some dielectric containers (glass or plastic may be used) then put electrodes in them.

To measure voltages you will need a voltage meter.

Register to Reply
2
Guru

Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1753
Good Answers: 59
#4

Re: Electricity from Lemons and Limes?

12/23/2008 1:05 AM

Please do not worry the details. For your kid a few demonstration of principles will do just fine. In any of these fruits the acidity of the Vitamin C will make possible the battery effect. Any two different metals including carbon from an old battery will provide good electrodes. While the voltages are determined by the different metals, The larger the surface, the larger the current, the larger the power. Both can be demonstrated reliably and repeatedly. Just do not expect anything stable: in a short time any such simple system is declining. That is expected. If you are ambitious a bit, a cheap, small red LED diode can show light from 3-5 lemons wired in series: like copper from one to iron nail to the other lemon, its copper wired by hand to the iron to the next lemon, etc. The LED diode can be purchased from Radio Shack, or whatever passes for that where you live. Should not cost you more than 10 - 25 cents. It would look good for him to show the threshold effect of any LED diodes: at 2-3Volts no current, no light, at 3-4Volts (more lemons) some light, at 4-5Volts (even more lemons) plenty of light. Good luck.

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Anonymous Poster
#10
In reply to #4

Re: Electricity from Lemons and Limes?

12/23/2008 3:55 PM

except that the main active ingredient for a battery will be acetic acid, not vitamin C (= ascorbic acid) - this applies both to lemons and limes.

Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Technical Fields - Education - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
Posts: 576
Good Answers: 13
#11
In reply to #10

Re: Electricity from Lemons and Limes?

12/23/2008 11:31 PM

except that the main active ingredient for a battery will be acetic acid, not vitamin C (= ascorbic acid) - this applies both to lemons and limes

No, citrus fruits in their unfermented state contain no acetic acid. The sour taste in is due to citric acid.

From Wikipedia:

"Citric acid exists in a variety of fruits and vegetables, most notably citrus fruits. Lemons and limes have particularly high concentrations of the acid; it can constitute as much as 8% of the dry weight of these fruits (1.44 and 1.38 grams per ounce of the juices, respectively). The concentrations of citric acid in citrus fruits range from .005 mol/L for oranges and grapefruits to .030 mol/L in lemons and limes. These values will vary depending on the circumstances in which the fruit was grown."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citric_acid

By contrast, acetic acid is produced synthetically, or by fermentation:

"Acetic acid is produced both synthetically and by bacterial fermentation. Today, the biological route accounts for only about 10% of world production, but it remains important for vinegar production, as the world food purity laws stipulate that vinegar used in foods must be of biological origin. About 75% of acetic acid made for use in the chemical industry is made by methanol carbonylation, explained below."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetic_acid

__________________
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. -- Piet Hein
Register to Reply
2
Associate

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Germany, City: Hannover
Posts: 41
Good Answers: 2
#5

Re: Electricity from Lemons and Limes?

12/23/2008 4:17 AM

Hi, I would join into the comment placed by Leveles: keep it simple! This would be appropriate for an 8 year old boy.

You can get electricity from many, if not the most fruits or vegetables. Acheap base for exploring the experiment setup you can use potatoes! A very detailed setup description you will find at http://www.miniscience.com/projects/PotatoElectricity/

Please note: dealing with electricity 2 important basics should be considered always:
- the Voltage. This can be compared to the water pressure in a water supply system. It provides the potence to press out the water into the bucket. The highest water pressure does exist if the line is closed. As soon as the line will be opened the pressure goes down. The same happens with the Voltage from a battery: the highest voltage can be measured if the lamp (or any consuming device) is switched off. As soon as the lamp (e.g. a LED) is switched on, the voltage is going down. How much that depends on the potence of the battery. If the battery is filled sufficiently, the drop in voltage is small and the lanp will glow b right. If the battery is about empty the voltage significantly getting reduced and the lamp possibly does not emitt any light.
- the current (Ampere). This can be compared to the flow rate you will from your water supply system. You know from your observations, that the water pressure is dropping down the more you open the line: there is a strong relationship between voltage and current according to the law of OHM.

For the basic evaluations of electricity from fruits is should be sufficient to check the voltage only. For checking the voltage from a fruit you need 2 poles. These poles must be of different nature, thus their chemical reaction with the juice of fruit will be different. From this difference the electrical effect will appear. That means, for the generated voltage the material of the poles is as important than the nature of the fruit!! You should use a thick copper wire (nail) for the one and a Zinc plated nail for the other (most nails for nailing wood at outdoor are plated with zinc - looking pale-silver. Follow up the experiment shown under the link.

A significant step ahead in the experiment would be the attempt to lighten a LED. Ten voltage AND current need to be on a minimum level. To earn sufficient current (Amperes) the surface sizes of the poles are important. Sections from sheet metal (copper and zinc-plated) are much more effective than round nails.

Please note: a LED will light only if the pins are correctly connected to the plus-pole and the minus-pole. In opposite connection it will not work even if sufficient current and voltage would be available. For an experiement therefore you should try both options for connection to be sure, the experiment does work or not. But as said above. for an 8 year old boy exploration of the voltage should be sufficient (using a Volt-Meter, Multimeter, for measuring the output. For this experiment simple round wires and nails are sufficient as pole material.

Good luck with the experiment and some fun together.

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
United States - Member - I am a Yankee Doodle Boy. Engineering Fields - Manufacturing Engineering - Old School is the best school. Safety - ESD - Safety Mgr that keeps the peace Hobbies - DIY Welding - My Motto:

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Broken Arrow, OK, USA
Posts: 838
Good Answers: 26
#8
In reply to #5

Re: Electricity from Lemons and Limes?

12/23/2008 9:36 AM

Excellent replt Albert i give you a good answer for the explanation.

__________________
If necessity is the mother of invention then is laziness the mother of necessity?
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 135
Good Answers: 6
#6

Re: Electricity from Lemons and Limes?

12/23/2008 4:32 AM

There is information on the ZOOM website (a kids show on PBS).

http://pbskids.org/zoom/activities/sci/lemonbattery.html

good luck

__________________
If you want to know what God thinks of money, just look at the people he gave it to. - Dorothy Parker
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: New Jersey U.S.A.
Posts: 1114
Good Answers: 38
#7
In reply to #6

Re: Electricity from Lemons and Limes?

12/23/2008 7:56 AM

A copper penny and a zinc coated nail work well. The more fruit the higher the voltage. With a good juicy lemon it should register about .8 volts. connect the copper to the nail from one fruit to the next to increase the voltage. The last two you connect your volt meter to.

__________________
The last fight was my fault. My wife asked "What's on the TV?" I said "Dust!"
Register to Reply
Power-User
United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: KY, USA
Posts: 367
Good Answers: 18
#9
In reply to #6

Re: Electricity from Lemons and Limes?

12/23/2008 9:41 AM

This is a good link - the setup is very simple and all of the necessary parts are house-hold items (except for the clock). I would say that this is pretty much what monpetite is looking for.

GA

__________________
The most valuable of all talents is that of never using two words when one will do. ~Thomas Jefferson
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1688
Good Answers: 145
#12

Re: Electricity from Lemons and Limes?

12/29/2008 9:12 AM

Lots of good advice from above posts.

Take a moment to reflect upon what Leveles said in posting #4. "Don't expect anything stable" is a key issue here. I suspect that the voltage difference is due to the two different metals selected and the current (power, energy, whatever) is dependent upon the ph, how wet the fruits are inside, how far apart the metals are, how much metal surface area is in contact with the fruit, etc. Thus, "our instrumentation is not good enough for us to tell the difference" is a very realistic outcome. This is not a problem, it is a feature. Teach a little about batteries and teach a little about in the real world you often have one more problem than you expected.

The most important thing is to try to make it fun and easy for the kids. I know some will disagree with this, but we teach kids to hate math and science at an early age. Make lights turn on. Maybe even make a very small motor spin. If it takes a dozen lemons then (if the connections are EASY to make work) go ahead and make a big mess. The kids should go home saying "Wow, I didn't know you could do that" and maybe even "Wow, that was fun". The 8 year olds should learn a little but be impressed a lot.

Math is a tool. Science is a tool. Engineering is the application of these tools. Make the kids want to learn how to use the tools because they want to apply them in doing something useful/fun. Don't fall into the rut of having math and science be classes that must be passed to advance to the next grade.

__________________
Few things limit our potential as much as knowing answers and setting aside questions.
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 12 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Albert Caspers (GER) (1); Anonymous Poster (2); BruceFlorida (1); charsley99 (1); d_m_rosenberg (1); double_j_b (1); EElectrician (1); leveles (1); Steve Melito (1); svengali (1); Wavebourn (1)

Previous in Forum: Installing Circuit Breakers and Current Transformers   Next in Forum: Ohms Law Problem

Advertisement