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Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/22/2008 9:26 AM

When I was younger, my parents rented an apartment in an older building built prior to World War Two. The exterior walls were built up entirely of brick as was the fashion back then.

Under the kitchen window was a box with a stamped steel door on it. Inside was a welded sheet-metal steel box that was open to the inside and with holes in the back vented to the outside.

Not sure what it was called back then. We simply referred to it as the "Cold Box" and while it was used periodically, we preferred the electric refrigerator.

Energy was abundant and cheap after WW2 so no one cared much about the cost of keeping things refrigerated.

I have two refrigerator-freezers running at home to keep things cold as do millions of others here in the east. It's about 14° F outside as I write this and I am burning up wattage to keep thing cold inside the house! This is nuts!

Refrigerators are said to be the highest consumers in the typical household and we are running them with power generated from burned hydrocarbons.

How much would it take to carve a hole in an exterior wall. Place a simple thermostatically controlled vent to the outdoors and an insulated door inside. You could keep things cold for free at least part of the year.

Toasters are also wasteful. I toast one slice and the whole thing lights up. A double slice toaster has six heating element surfaces when only two are needed to toast a slice.

When is Going Green going to show up in the home in some place other than light bulbs?

How many of oddities like this can you share that might cut our energy dependence?

L.J.

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#1

Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/22/2008 10:15 AM

Sorry I don't understand the concept of just one piece of toast....

I must admit...at Christmas the garage get used as an auxiary cold store facility.

Del

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#3
In reply to #1

Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/22/2008 12:58 PM

Del wrote: "Sorry I don't understand the concept of just one piece of toast...."

Del, I'm having trouble understanding your response. I am not sure if you don't understand why anyone would toast just one slice of toast.

I do, often.

All the two slot toasters here in the Colonies are all made the same: Three pieces of heat resistant mica, each one wrapped with a strip of nichrome heating element. The toast is made in between.

That means that all six surfaces are generating heat when only two are needed when toasting a single slice.

Even if one is toasting two slices, the outer surfaces of the outer elements do nothing.

That's the kind of energy waste I was referring to.

Granted, given how little a toaster us used, no one is going to notice the reduction in greenhouse gases from one, more efficient toaster.

However, my experience has been that the cumulative effects of managing little details can have a considerable effect, especially when a community is doing it.

L.J.

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#4
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/22/2008 3:05 PM

I am not sure if you don't understand why anyone would toast just one slice of toast.

It's what passes for a "joke" on a bad day...self deprocating, implying greed on my part...
Del
(exit monitor left shuffling uncomforatably and muttering... I'm sorry, I'm just a cute ikle puddy tad don' be cwoss wiv me )

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#16
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/23/2008 6:43 AM

I liked your joke, maybe it was "too British" for some to understand it!!!

But do not stop writing as you do now!!!

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#44
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/24/2008 2:42 PM

Any red blooded Colonist knows that one has a toast slice ONLY. There are some recent studies that link "over the pond" mandate of TWO slices of toast and the imposed 5 o'clock led to the Boston Tea Party, a while ago.

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#2

Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/22/2008 11:32 AM

When I grew up in NYC, my father always used the porch out the back door of the kitchen as an auxiliary refrigerator. When the temp got too cold for some things, they would be moved inside to keep from freezing. As Del said holiday refrigerator. Before the holidays the porch was full.

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#5

Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/22/2008 3:18 PM

There's a company in Vermont that makes a device that uses outside cold air to cool those walk in beer coolers. I've never looked at one up close, but it can't be to complicated.

In the winter, I keep my beer in the back hall, and it's also a great place to ferment my lager. I make ale in the warmer months, and lager in the colder ones.

I made a solar cooker, much like this one:

You should see the strange looks and comments I get from my neighbors when I pull it out.

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#6
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/22/2008 3:45 PM

That would be the solar cooker right?

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#7
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/22/2008 6:23 PM

LOL! Um, er, humph, turning bright shade of crimson here, after I reread that.

It's really how I communicate with the mother ship, parked behind the moon, (of course, one must be wearing the tin-foil hat for that to happen). I have cleverly disguised the main transmitter to look like a pot of haggis.

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#17
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/23/2008 6:44 AM

Nice cooker......

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#8

Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/22/2008 9:14 PM

Why do you toast the bread in the first place? If you can not get in to eating raw bread, try this energy saver:

Cut a hole in the middle of the piece of bread. Heat butter in a frying pan. Toast one side of the bread in the heated oil, flip it over, and break your egg into the hole in the center. Cook to taste, cover with favorite cheese just before done.

Now you have your toast and egg, for just the cost of cooking the egg...

As for keeping things cool, I learned a few things while sailing about:

1. Eggs that have never been refrigerated will keep for a surprisingly long time without refrigeration.

2. Sun-dried fish (and, most likely, other fleshy substances) does not require refrigeration.

3. When desperate, one CAN drink warm beer...

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#9
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/23/2008 2:25 AM

Toast? Ah it is the vitamin "D"

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#10
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/23/2008 3:01 AM

Some of those multi-slice toasters are actually quite smart. Agreed you really need only 4 surfaces, not 6, to do a double row of toast. But the outer two element panels are wound with different exposure of nichrome strip each side, so only enough nichrome looks "out" to weave the wire securely through the mica etc.

Basically, they do in fact play as 4-surface devices. Maybe 4.1 ?

Did you think about the electronic timer? WTF do they do to get just a few volts to power the elctronics? I'll tell ya the secret: they have a lonely rivet near one end of one nichrome element winding, that represents the tap of a voltage divider. Six volts or so of AC are available without the need for any transformer. A diode and capacitor, presto! 5v DC to run the timer chip.

The guys who design these toasters deserve a medal. My beef with the people who market the toasters? The whole concept of a 12-month replacement warranty, so you return a failed toaster (inside 12 months) and receive a new one. The old one gets garbaged. The energy to manufacture it, the mineral resources, the valuable metals and plastics, the factory labor, the shipping, all down the toilet because we make appliances so cheap and everybody is too ......... to do repairs.

Fill in the appropriate word for ........ above.

Mark

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#11
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/23/2008 4:25 AM

Why would you try to repair a toaster when a new one is less than £4?

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#12
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/23/2008 4:38 AM

Because you are bored with Christmas and it's pissing with rain, and your workshop is the only available peace and quiet?...
Just a wild guess

Del

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#13
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/23/2008 5:05 AM

True enough, my shed is my sanctuary.

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#27
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/23/2008 10:46 AM

Del wrote "Because you are bored with Christmas and it's pissing with rain, and your workshop is the only available peace and quiet?... Just a wild guess"

Here! Here!

L. J.

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#47
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/25/2008 3:36 PM

Why would you try to repair a toaster when a new one is less than £4?

Because you can?

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#53
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/25/2008 8:05 PM

My toaster weighs less than 2 pounds.

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#35
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/23/2008 1:47 PM

Toasted

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#14
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/23/2008 5:43 AM

Do I have to be desperate to drink warm beer?

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#18
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/23/2008 6:45 AM

Gentlemen, you would repair the toaster (a) because you can, (b) because the replacement toaster does not cost four pounds, it costs the earth.

There is an alternative, of course. You can spend your labour segregating the recyclable plastic casing, the heavy-metal plated steel chassis and the nickel/chromium resistance wire. But if five minutes can diagnose the fault, hey! a "new" toaster for almost nothing.

Four pounds and the earth saved. Your reputation with your children maintained. And, as a bonus, toast for breakfast.

Mark

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#15

Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/23/2008 6:43 AM

I have a 40 year toaster that has 4 slots for toast. One is set up to toast only one slice, leaving theother heaters off. That isn't really new. Maybe I'm nuts for having the same toaster for 40+ years.

My grandmother had a simple folding metal toaster that would be put on the stove over a burner. Not too efficient.

Just some history. Don't worry too much about being "Green" the world is headed for an ice age.

I conserve in everything I do to do my part but I do it for the challange and to save $$$. Maybe that's why I still have a 40 year old toaster that my wife periodically vacuums messing up the thermostat/timer. I think I've fixed it 100 times.

I don't do it to feel good.

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#19

Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/23/2008 7:49 AM

When your electric can opener fails replace it with a manual can opener. There are some good quality ones available now. I got this idea from my 80 year old mom who gave all of the kids one for christmas after we commented on how easy it was to use.

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#54
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/25/2008 8:07 PM

I have not had an electric can opener in years. Won't own one.

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#20

Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/23/2008 8:25 AM

Water heaters are another power consumer that is very wasteful. The heater is always heating the water even if you are sleeping or on vacation. Try supplying a timer to the water heater to shut off power when not in use. The timer is about $30 but in the long run it has paid for its self

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#28
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/23/2008 10:55 AM

Amused wrote: "Water heaters are another power consumer that is very wasteful"

My first experience of an on demand water heater was in 1982 when I went to London on my honeymoon. It was the cheapest hotel in London. You fed it a few pence and in a few minutes, you took a shower.

It took an energy crises for the US to discover them but they can be had here. They won't work with teenage daughters however. For them you need something the size of the Hoover Dam!

L.J.

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#29
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/23/2008 11:08 AM

They won't work with teenage daughters however.

Teen age boys are no better! We had one of each. Both took long showers!!

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#30
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/23/2008 11:32 AM

DDK wrote: "Teen age boys are no better! We had one of each. Both took long showers!!"

This time of year, in Minnesota, I too would relish the steam of long hot shower!

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#32
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/23/2008 11:37 AM

relish the steam of long hot shower!

Soaking in my outdoor hot tub in 104 F (40 C) is what I do when the wind doesn't affect me. I've been in it when it was -30 F (-35 C)

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#36
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/23/2008 1:58 PM

Most water heaters have two elements.

To save energy set the upper element at about 110°F and the lower at 140°F.

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#37
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/23/2008 4:14 PM

I've been trying to get my dad to replace his water heater with a tankless model. He refuses to buy it early and they don't stock them at home depot or lowes last time i checked. I agree though, water heater are one of the top household energy consumers. Probably the easiest fix as well considering that thay are warranteed longer and you'll be able to recover the added $ of up front expenses.

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#38
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/23/2008 8:59 PM

I travel to the UK several times a year, and I think those in shower mounted, electric water heaters are very cool. My only complaint is that, for the most part, water pressure is quite low in the UK, and I'm not sure they could keep up around here.

Americans take a shower every single day. Right now, only my son lives with me, and we work for ther same company. We take about 90% of our showers at work. As we live about 3 miles from work, we've been known to go to the locker room and take our showers there, before breakfast, on our days off.

I now have a tank-less, oil fired water heater, that we turn on only when we need it. It's a nice little unit, about 5 years old, and takes about 5 minutes to come to heat. The only time I have to fire it up is for a shower at home, to do laundry, or do the dishes.

I would love to switch over to those electric, at point, water heaters, then I could get rid of the oil tank in my cellar altogether. I heat my house with pellets and wood, so that is my only use for oil. I just don't think it would be very cost effective, as we use about 200 gallons of oil a year.

I really, really, would like to get rid of that 250 gallon oil tank though, then I could install another plant propagator.

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#41
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/24/2008 5:02 AM

Americans take a shower every single day.

I'm not sure I like your implimication...
With Christmas tomorrow , not to mention the new year I shall definitely have a shower soon.
We actually have 3 showers in our house..count 'em and weep..
Two run of the domestic hot water and Mrs Cat has her own special girlie shower room with an electric instant shower, which is handy when I'm botching servicing the central heating (BTW I fixed the smelly flue...I changed all the gaskets between the cast iron boiler and the sheet metal flue)..
She's even got a mirror with lights all around it in there (no not actually in the wet bit)

Have a good hol everyone!

Del

(And if 3 showers insn't enough, we sometimes run around the garden naked in the rain )

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#42
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/24/2008 5:17 AM

Thanks for leaving me with that mental image for the holiday.

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#43
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/24/2008 7:39 AM

agreed. bad image.

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#55
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/25/2008 8:10 PM

don't forget the dishwasher folks. Wash em by hand and as you dirty em. I use the dishwasher 'bout twice a month, maybe.

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#57
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/25/2008 10:35 PM

Only keep one fork, knife, spoon, plate, bowl put others in sturdy box; lock it and transport to storage.

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#21

Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/23/2008 8:33 AM

Whether your refrigerator is a high efficiency model running in perfect condition, an ancient load hog, the net consumption is extremely low, when it is cold as an icebox outside. This assumes that when it is cold as an icebox outside, a gas or electric heater is being used to keep the home warm.

The refrigerator removes heat from the interior and expels that heat and additional heat resulting from being less than 100% efficient into the home. As long as it is cold enough outside to require heating the home with a gas or electric heater or heat pump, BOTH the heat removed from the icebox and the heat from inefficiency in the refrigerator reduce the load on the primary unit heating the home.

During the winter your refrigerator is a very efficient combination heat pump and induction heater and friction heater for your home. It is actually the hot months when a refrigerator adds significantly to net energy consumption.

Here are some of the higher benefit per cost modifications I know. I live in Florida, so I do have a warm climate perspective.

1. Solar attic fan.

2. KVAR (there is some deebate about using these on sites as small as a typical residence, but i have seen a dramatic improvement in quality of electricity and a significant reduction in cost)

3. Heat Pump style water heater.... produces hot water in the most efficient manner, with the added benefit of producing chilled air.

4. Shade trees to the east and west of the house.

5. Passive heat reclamation used to preheat water before the hot water heater. The two best examples of this drain pipe wraps, (which recapture some of the heat from the sink or shower drain water) and atttic radiators, which circulate hot air in the attic through a automobile style radiator to preheat water prior to the hot water heater.

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#22

Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/23/2008 9:01 AM

Why have a toaster? Just use a fork in front of the fire;
saving £4, (toaster) the electric bill, and the planet, in one go.
(they had it sorted years ago - when we had nothing. e.g.)

Like the fridge - luxury! (waste) We had a "cold" room where a
water evaporation set-up in the summer cooled slate slabs for the
butter, milk, meat etc. and no heat to warm it during the winter.

e.g. Like a good shower? Stand in the rain; cheap as chips!

My father (as a lad) cut coloured paper from old newspapers,
and made them into paper "flowers" - which he sold on the street.
He used the money, a few pence, to buy potatoes on the way back
home - otherwise no meal! They just haven't got any idea today!

jt.

One can live quite cheaply - when you have no money!

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#23

Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/23/2008 9:07 AM

fans instead of air conditioning.

Lower temperature in the house 60 F (15 C) for sleeping or colder.

66 F (19 C) when you're awake

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#45
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/24/2008 3:10 PM

I have tried these settings, and my electric bill went to $350 a month, not to mention the cost of the blankets and warm clothes! As for the fans, they are of no help with such LOW settings!

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#59
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/26/2008 8:05 AM

I have tried these settings, and my electric bill went to $350 a month,

I doubt it. My gas bill is generally under $100 / month and my electric about $100. That's for 3500 sq ft.

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#70
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/27/2008 1:03 PM

The intent was of a joke: I tried, in the summer, to lower the temperature (apparently) with fans. It seemed to cool a bit. But to lower the temperature settings for the ones that you use for heating, makes the AC unit draw a lot of energy, therefore money.

So, please, just laugh and give me two GA's (one for excuses)...

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#24

Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/23/2008 9:09 AM

Shut off the boob tube and read a book.

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#25

Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/23/2008 9:54 AM

Simple Energy-Saving ideas that don't cost anything;

Smartest way to save energy is shut off anything that is not in use or not necessary!

Thermostat set point:

Freezer - set point must be -18 deg C as this is acceptable standard ideally for energy conservation. some technician set the thermostat much higher for the satisfaction of the user without knowing how much it cost per 1 deg C.

Air con - set point of 23 deg C is comfortable for human being, in some cases certain individual set the thermostat down to 18 deg C and then use a thick blanket during the night because it is very cold. WASTAGE!, don't let your window or door widely open while your air-conditioning is ON otherwise either hot air will come in or cold air will go out again WASTAGE!

Hot water heater - Set point must be 48 deg C, if you set your thermostat at 50 deg C, you will mix it with cold water since you can't take shower directly to that 50 deg C temperature again WASTAGE! .

Hope you agree on me that these are all without cost as you need only your finger to hold the thermostat and adjust on the set point that I mentioned.

We still have hundreds of saving opportunities with out cost.

Kind regards

Roman

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#26
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/23/2008 10:18 AM

I believe hot water needs to reach 60 deg C to kill of micro organisms.

Del

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#31
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/23/2008 11:33 AM

You are very right Del, 60 Deg C is sufficient enough to kill micro organisms and some other bacteria, however water are supposed to be treated before delivering to users, bacteria should be killed, and if we're talking about shower or kitchen used, how about the cold water tap are you saying it must passed through and attained 60 deg C before be used? ensuring that the micro organisms are being killed, on that case both taps should hot and no more cold .

Thanks and Merry X-mass Del.

Kind regards

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#33
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/23/2008 11:48 AM

how about the cold water tap are you saying it must passed through and attained 60 deg C before be used?

No, cold isn't too bad as it generally has chlorine etc in it to aviod bacterial growth, but warm water can be a breeding ground... I believe.

Nuffin to do wiv me guv.

Del

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#34
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/23/2008 12:07 PM

Del, I believed 48 deg C should not be considered as warm, that is only my opinion, on my 25 years in the hotel I never had experienced or issue that due to part of energy conservation and setting down hot water set point into 48 deg C we got guest or employees complaints illness related to bacteria or micro organism which was caused by 48 deg C set point. therefore I could consider that this temperature set point, the bacteria or micro organism still can't generate or grow easily, they will die.

Again I respect your belief, and I considered it as a point. however I keep my set point at 48 deg C. to save $$$$$$.

Kind regards

Roman

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#72
In reply to #26

Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/27/2008 5:32 PM

Thats not hot enough to kill everything, and only countries where water is held in a tank in the loft (UK!!) need to "disinfect" their water anyway....legionaire's disease is also possible from such water.

We do not "store" any water here, all our water heaters do it "on the fly" as it saves money. No hot water tank, no cold water tank and hot showers at full mains pressure are a dream come true!!!

I always hated those electric heaters in the UK because they are limited to a single phase and only have tiny amounts of water, they cannot heat up more quickly enough. Here we have also such units but on 3 phase at 16 amps per phase! I have one for the guest toilet. They heat up a lot of water very fast. I did make the mistake of buying a single phase unit for the second kitchen in the basement, money wasted!!!

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#39

Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/23/2008 11:11 PM

Something I overlooked.

I have an electric blanket on my bed which is turned on and off automatically by an appliance timer. On top of the electric blanket is a lightweight insulated comforter.

Using that combination not only allows me to lower the night time thermostat substantially but when I do retire, the bed is already warm. Furthermore, I am not burdened by the weight of heavy blankets.

I had entertained placing an electric hot water heater in the line from the domestic hot water discharge on my oil fired boiler. I thought perhaps I could shut down the boiler completely during the warm months and use the water heater exclusively. I theorized that it had to be more economical than keeping the entire boiler hot during the summer, just for domestic hot water.

However, the company that services my heating system was concerned that leaving the system shut down for five months would introduce other problems and that the small amount of foul oil saved would not be sufficient to offset the costs of the heater installation.

I left it at that.

L.J.

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#40

Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/24/2008 4:57 AM

I live in the wet tropics so my main concern is cooling and dehumidifying, rather than heating.

I usually run the aircon on 26 or 27 C. With an outside temp of 30-33C this then functions mainly as a dehumidifier, but it does wonders for comfort, while saving a considerable amount of power. (It can be 28C, 90% humidity at 6am. The day will usually warm up to 30-33C with about 85% humidity. Consequently in summer, aircon tends to go on early and off well after dark)

A solar water heater provides ample free hot water most of the year, but in summer there can be weeks of overcast when it functions poorly. Consequently an electric element is connected half way up the tank and off peak power is used for this (1/3 the daytime rate). The thermostat for the booster is set at 60C.

All rooms have overhead fans which make aircon unnecessary for all except 3-4 months of the year. they also distribute the cooled air when aircon is running.

Only the lounge/family/kitchen area has aircon. Sufficient cool air flows to the rest of the house to make it comfortable enough to sleep, although supplementary air flow from the fans is frequently needed.

I have 2 acres, so a cow mows the lawn. This means I mow the lawn with a mower only once or twice a year, except for a small area around the house where we try to preserve some plants from her.

I have been slack about taking full advantage of the manure for the garden, but it is available. When she is milking she provides more than enough for us, the dogs and the chooks. Because of government regulations, surplus milk has to be wasted. A terrible waste as she could supply several other houses as well.

While most of you wouldn't be able to keep a cow, chooks can be kept in almost any yard. They not only pay for themselves in eggs, but if allowed to roam the garden for some of the day, they clean up a remarkable number of insects, reducing if not eliminating, the need for sprays. they also do wonders for keeping the spiders in check. If I lock them up for more than a couple of weeks, I find significant numbers of huntsman type spiders come into the house.

Sometime I would like to experiment with anaerobic digestion of household and garden wastes to produce free fuel for the car, but that is just a future pipe dream. The quantity of waste required is probably too great to make it feasible, but I have yet to crunch the numbers.

In a hot climate with a large daily temp range it is worth opening windows at night to cool the house down, then close up early in the morning to keep it cool during the day.

In a cold climate, you can sometimes reverse this by taking advantage of the warmth of sunny days to store heat in the house.

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#46
In reply to #40

Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/24/2008 10:26 PM

20 lbs of organic matter contains about 180,000 BTU of chemical energy.

The energy that could be released from the yard waste of 2 acres is about 340,000,000 BTU if you collected the clippings for six months.

Figure a 10'x10'x8' insulated and air tight box (a septic tank) with coiled tubing or PVC piping for heat exchange throughout. average compost temp about 150° for about six months. Make the tank 2/10th's larger and add a distiller inside to produce methane.

Gotcha thin kin

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#52
In reply to #46

Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/25/2008 8:04 PM

Hi bwire,

Do you have any more detailed info on this please?

(waste tank heating & methane gas)

Maybe I'd like to give it a go. I have a few acres
which need cutting and if the payback is good,
then why not?

(please email: jt@swopzone.com many thanks.)

jt.

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#67
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/27/2008 6:58 AM

hi bwire

Thanks for the info.

This project is now part of the 20 year plan, provided Mrs Sceptic runs out of other things for me to do!

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#68
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/27/2008 7:23 AM

provided Mrs Sceptic runs out of other things for me to do!

I'm sure Mrs Cat can find you some more stuff to do if you want.

Del

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#69
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/27/2008 12:43 PM

http://sustainabledesignupdate.com/?p=934

Cornstalks harvested from one acre then bio-digested can produce the methane necessary for one persons use for one year

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#71
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/27/2008 5:06 PM

BWIRE wrote: "Cornstalks harvested from one acre then bio-digested can produce the methane necessary for one persons use for one year"

I worked on a dairy farm summers when a boy. And they ate corn a lot! And they generated lots of methane gas!

The combined flatulence of herd of Holstein or Guernsey milking cows will change your mind in a hurry!

L.J.

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#99
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/31/2008 7:02 PM

I didn't inhale

Bottle that gas

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#48

Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/25/2008 3:58 PM

An energy-saving idea not mentioned here yet is walking. The typical human walking speed is on the order of 4 miles per hour. One mile = 15 minutes. How long would it take to drive that mile? Include the time it takes to find the keys, traffic stops, finding a parking place, etc. Furthermore, walking opens you up to things you don't normally see when closed up in a vehicle. Walking can be accomplished in all but the most extreme of weather conditions, often more safely than most other modes of transportation (depending, of course, on the quality of the neighborhood). The greatest risk is being arrested for "unusual behavior" by the local constabulary, who are not accustomed to seeing pedestrians...

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#58
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/26/2008 8:01 AM

The typical human walking speed is on the order of 4 miles per hour. One mile = 15 minutes.

That is pretty optimistic. I think most people walk between 2-3 MPH. I've actually timed myself walking for 4 .1 miles. I know I was walking significantly faster than most people.

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#60
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/26/2008 8:43 AM

Yup, I'm with you.
4mph is a petty fast striding out, not a normal walking pace...but not quite a yomp...

Del

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#73
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/27/2008 5:37 PM

4MPH is exactly my speed, my wife hates it though the dog appreciates it much more....I hate walking slow!!!!

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#62
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/26/2008 12:07 PM

Maybe I walk too much? 4 mph is my "casual" stride...

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#63
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/26/2008 12:15 PM

It might just be a reflection of our different cultures. When I timed myself I was training for a backpacking adventure. I had on a 50 lb backpack and I did 4.1 miles in 1 hour.

Most people in the USA don't walk for the purpose of getting someplace in a hurry. They tend to walk and talk.

Probably a reflection of how tall you are longer legs generally means a faster walk.

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#64
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/26/2008 12:29 PM

Skipping is very energy efficient..I remember me and my Brothers skipping down Muswell hill in London...it's quite steep and my stride length...I vauguely remember each bounding stride seeming about twenty yards...and then...dunno WTF happened

Del

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#65
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/26/2008 1:13 PM

Yes, 4 mph is walking with a purpose. 2 is holding hands and 3-3.5 is what I feel a more natural pace.

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#74
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/29/2008 9:32 AM

I'd agree with those paces

Also walking is a learned art, I find that people used to only walking grocery aisles and cube farms rarely "relax" into a decent stride until they have logged a few miles.

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#49

Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/25/2008 4:14 PM

Toss the plasma TV's

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#50

Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/25/2008 4:18 PM

Seeing the steam plumes exiting factories is sickening enough in more temperate seasons but in winter the shear magnitude of heat energy wasted by industry is gross.

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#51

Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/25/2008 8:02 PM

Passive heat storage. As long as your house is well insulated, you can increase your home heating efficiency by building up heat storage mass: materials with decent heat capacity eg stone, water, can be gotten for no cost if that is the key factor.

For a few dollars more, I have a heat storage system on my wood furnace that works really well. It's a hot water radiation system, and we put in a large tank next to the furnace (covered with some minor insulation) to store heat from the fire. Under ordinary winter conditions, I burn one hot fire per day: heat up the water in the system and the tank. The hot water stored there is enough to feed the system demand for heat for 24 hours. Apart from saving me the labor of tending a fire night and day, a hot fire burns cleaner (less smoke = less pollution); there's no buildup of creosote in the chimney either.

On the subject of cooling, I recently moved my noisy, cantankerous little fridge out into the unheated porch.. where it has silently served ever since. It still seems to be running - the light comes on - but the noisefest is over.. go figure?

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#61
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/26/2008 11:21 AM

artsmith wrote:"Passive heat storage. As long as your house is well insulated, you can increase your home heating efficiency by building up heat storage mass:. . '

The best example of that I know of is my friend's swimming pool. A 50,000 gallon "heat sink" whose performance he enhances in the winter by covering it with a black tarp.

He has a heat exchanger 50 feet away in the basement his home. So long as there is just a few degrees differential between the outside air temp and tempo of the pool water, there is heat to be had. A lot of it!

His only lament is that he failed to anticipate this application when he had the pool built. He'd have insulated the base and walls better.

L.J.

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#66
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/26/2008 4:57 PM

50,000 gallons! that's enough to make anyone jealous.

I also have some regrets about foundation insulation, which would have been a worthy investment but was overlooked.

I have an energy exchange problem that has yet to be solved, although I feel certain that there is a viable answer that could make my home superefficient. There is an attached greenhouse on the south side of the house 12 X 28. At the time of building I underestimated the potential for solar gain. I didn't know the microclimate of the site and didn't realize that there is a "sun belt" here that escapes much of the regional foggy weather. This greenhouse is an amazing heat sink in summer but drops to ten below at the worst of winter. There is still something that could be done passively to moderate these extremes, but the possibility of capturing that heat and storing it for winter circulation is even more appealing.

The heat exchanger technology was not part of the dialogue when I built this place in 91. You say the pool is 50 feet away from the heat exchanger. I had been thinking, wondering if there was a way to install a heat exchanger right inside the greenhouse. It has concrete foundation walls but a chip rock/paving rock floor. Now I am wondering, if the heat exchanger was installed near by, would it still get the gain from the greenhouse and could it be designed to moderate the overheating in summer, by directly or indirectly tapping it, to the extent that it would not be necessary to cool it otherwise.

Another site factor that might affect this: the belowground terrain is solid rock to fairly shallow depths: accomodation had to be made when building since I didn't want to blast to go deeper. The basement floor is cemented to the upper part of this underground cliff. The greenhouse section is a bit deeper but serious drilling gear is expected to be required at depths less than 4 feet or so.

Insights on this design problem woud be much appreciated.

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#75
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/29/2008 11:23 AM

Use the shop vac to suck up that chip rock, lay down 1/2 inch irrigation tube in coils, and hook it to a circulator pump?

I was recently on the phone with a solar guru from the early days, designed and sold solar tracking troughs, etc. has completely shifted over to coils of irrigation tube.

Apparently the current thinking is that absolute peak temperatures are not that important, gather up lots more little temp deltas.

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#76
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/29/2008 8:40 PM

This is a good idea, I think it might work. The chip rock floor is 3 or 4 feet deep and a fair bit of coil could be buried into it.

I can really see a pipe that diameter picking up lots of heat in the summer. The garden hose lying on the stone floor in the summer makes some scalding hot water. But a 2 litre bottle of water in the winter will freeze. If the coils don't freeze in the winter then the greenhouse will be warmed too. I'll be looking into it.. thanks!

Apparently the current thinking is that absolute peak temperatures are not that important, gather up lots more little temp deltas.

I like this kind of energy thinking. I'm tracking down a thread about wind energy on a parallel theme. We need technologies that moderate extremes.

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#77
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/29/2008 9:04 PM

Hmmm,

Some sort insulation? Between the ground and the pipe/chiprock layers? Problem is that while chiprock will be handy to lay back down, for thermal mass it kind of is less than ideal.

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#78
In reply to #77

Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/29/2008 10:08 PM

What would you recommend as a floor surface over the pipe?

Ultimately the greenhouse needs to be as insulated as possible, so that keeping it from freezing is an acceptable part of the whole heat budget.

We just put some slabs of insulation under the chip rock and used the chip as a bed for big rocks with a flat side for walking on. Not enough mass though, and of course you're right, the chip adds nothing to that.

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#79
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/30/2008 8:30 AM

Well, sleep helps

Reconsidering after looking at your location (the frozen north)

Perhaps what we want is not mass in the floor, since we are trying to suck heat into the pipe during the daytime, and then avoid freezing at night.

Have you a back wall to the greenhouse that is sunlit? Perhaps a false wall, perhaps only a framework?

Then you could run an "S" shape with poly pipe on the sunlit back wall/framework and only pump water into it during non-freezing periods in the greenhouse. The "S" would insure it could be self-draining.

This would provide a heat source, but abandon the greenhouse to freeze at night.

Other thoughts to think might include how do you go about insulating the greenhouse itself during the darks? In the early solar days there was some interesting work done with poly beads and vacuums for irregular surfaces. Perhaps a secondary wall of acrylic say 3" in from the greenhouse glass. Blow the void full of poly beads at night and suck them back out in the daytime?

Pretty '70s, but some of that goofy stuff worked OK.

Actually this idea will probably generate more better comments from our fellows.

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#81
In reply to #79

Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/30/2008 11:19 AM

The south facing wall opposite the glazing is a bigger area than the floor and is an obvious place to collect. I didn't know about S shape for drainage. It would be great to design a system where convection does at least some of the work of circulation.

?If there is pipe (or tanks) in the floor (insulated) and pipe on the wall (exposed) is it possible to configure the wall pipe so that warm water flowing up by convection at times of heat loss on the wall, has enough pressure to circulate water back down and keep the pipes from freezing? Or is that an impossible 'pipe dream' Alternatively, what sort of energy input would be required to keep water circulating and therefore unfrozen? It is only a couple of months really.

Draining the wall in winter would be ok too. I have thought about some sort of insulating blinds on a track that could be rolled up and down, but so far no resources to invest in such a thing. (I am saving my tyvek envelopes and one of these days will see about making some small window prototypes to fight the drafts).

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#82
In reply to #81

Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/30/2008 11:30 AM

I would look into the low amp pumps being used by the radiant flooring people. Several run on DC, are very low amps so thrifty, and are reversible; so if the lowest point is the loops in the floor, feed from the floor in the morning and reverse (drain) from the floor at night.

Haven't seen much luck using convection due to the site specific nature (the parameters of how high, how low, etc. would be too specific for a contractor to want to go with it) but you might be able to get it to work yourself.

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#83
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/30/2008 11:42 AM

This is one thing I like about the 'coils of pipe' idea: it's the sort of material that could be tested over a season before making a permanent configuration.

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#84
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/30/2008 12:03 PM

That and really cheap "going in" cost, easily reconfigured.

I gotta tell you when it was thrown at me by the guru I FLINCHED.

It took him 30 minutes to get my mind bent back around to a low-tech approach.

I ought to credit my guru by the way:

His name actually IS Phil

Reach him here: http://i-heat.com/

And I still love his high tech toys, but he is using air exposed or sub-surface ground sourced polyvinyl tube for all his new projects.

An example: from an excellent resource page

http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/SpaceHeating/Space_Heating.htm#Geothermal

Scroll down to : Geothermal Heat Pumps

And then keep in mind, a lot of folks are just using pumps and heat exchangers vice expensive heat pumps.

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#86
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/30/2008 12:17 PM

oops!

you just answered the question I just posted to Bob..

thanks for excellent leads.

I rate you a GA for this discussion, totally on topic for low cost.

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#80
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/30/2008 10:27 AM

How much heat do you think you would retain if you were to lay 1" Styrofoam or other sheet like foam panels on the floor of the hothouse, and then covered them with 3/8" or 1/2" plywood? The 12X28 floor should only require 10.5 sheets of a 4X8 size. That would give the sun's radiated energy less cold to overcome, raising the temperature in the hothouse. That might allow you to send some of that collected heat to your house.

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#85
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/30/2008 12:10 PM

I think it would help quite a bit, as long as there is enough pipe laid down under the floor to pump and store a lot of heat. Insulating the long term storage mass all around while collecting elsewhere (on the wall) makes sense.

Keeping the heat for when it is needed is the big issue. What is it about the 'heat exchanger' design that makes long term storage over seasonal scales viable?. Without knowing any details, it seems that the vastness of mass, situated below the depth of freezing or otherwise exempt from freezing, is the key. If the greehouse floor is too small an area for storage, how would you go about feeding the heat collected from the greenhouse, into such a long-term storage system... ?

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#87
In reply to #85

Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/30/2008 12:32 PM

There are relatively inexpensive poly storage tanks available. If wrapped with double layers of insulating foam sheets and allowed to store the heat collected in the greenhouse, it should work throughout the winter months. I am not sure about dumping that collected heat into the ground. I had thought to just insulate the floor of the greenhouse from being cooled by the cold floor. Then the collected heated water could be stored in the poly tank. PV panels elsewhere to charge a battery bank that would continue to circulate the water during the night should keep the green house warm through the cold nights.

The more efficient the heat collection, and storage, the warmer the greenhouse.

If not sufficient, a heat activated tank-less water heater could be plumbed into the same system that would only turn on at the selected temperature.

I have a 2500 gallon poly tank here that was 90" around, and 103" tall. Cost should be about $1700 US. It would take a better mathematician than me to decide how much water you should have, but there is an answer out there somewhere.

Does this make sense to you, or do I need to change my medication again?

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#88
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/30/2008 1:20 PM

Well I was trying to stay within the topic (HAH!) of nearly free and just take heat from the system during the day - low tech and low scale.

Once you get that working...

Well, space concrete pipe sections (say 12" or 24" - say, clay drain pipe would work) you bought surplus around the greenhouse in pillar fashion. Seal the bottoms. Circulate water through them all day from the heat source. Shut off the heat source at night and let them radiate?

a million ways to tackle this one:

Dig up the greenhouse floor to 18", run proper PEX line 6" below grade, fill hole with concrete to create slab, Circulate water etc, like above.

Save yourself all of this, simply make the greenhouse interior south-facing wall out of water filled clay pipe.

Guess solution would depend on what is cheap in your locale?

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#89
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/30/2008 1:22 PM

I think that, given the right storage volume, the investment of a little energy to circulate, as a failsafe to keep from freezing under extremes, would be well worth the payoff. PV's might be dodgy.. I bought a string of PV LED xmas lights this year and put the panel in the star position on a tree... they didn't come on at all on a couple of the shortest and overcast days.

Helping people to think through alternatives in complex energy problems on CR seems like a damn fine medication to me... ad libitum! or PRN. Cheers.

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#90
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/30/2008 1:44 PM

How is the wind in the winter? If you look hard, you may find a belt drive ventilator fan that has a bad motor. replace the motor with an aotomobile alternator, and connect to a storage battery bank. The battery bank should run the circulation pump through the nifgt.

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#91
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/30/2008 2:09 PM

WIND: is actually a huge issue in the heat budget. Winds in the 100-120 kph range are standard fare in the winter. A lot of cold air is blowing across the S facing glazing from the west which is both exposed and prevailing wind direction. I am thinking to attach a woodshed on the west end of the greenhouse. Also a bit of tree cover on that end would help. Ultimately though, a system to tap wind energy is the most obvious and also most problematic, due to design problems with high wind speed and gusts, and also because of ice and snow.

If I understand correctly, you are talking about a smallish, human scale fan, turned into a small DC wind energy collector. This is exactly the scale of wind generation that I can get my head around. If the basic elements are small and inexpensive enough to experiment with, then feasible designs have a chance to evolve.

I personally think that the 'control' issues experienced with monolithic, industrial scale wind generation could be solved by designing arrays of small wind collectors which can be manipulated/programmed to adapt to changing conditions.

I have to rate this a GA for free energy with reused/recycled parts.

I would like to get my hands on some basic plans/diagram for doing this (mechanical engineering maybe furthest from my personal experience.. electrical ok).

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#93
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/30/2008 4:22 PM

Good snag artsmith!

Huge protion of heating budget is wind across heated exterior walls (hmmm, gotta number here somewhere) I'll have to flip a note to my engineer at heatweb dot com unless there is an HVAC engineer in the house?

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#95
In reply to #91

Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/31/2008 10:31 AM

There seems to be a ventilation fan that is belt driven in every crappy warehouse in Florida. They all make noise from hitting the burglar bars. And they are never turned on. The best picture I could find was from a Grainger catalog.

If you mounted an alternator to the mounting pad designed for the motor, you should be in working condition easily. If you feel the large fan is spinning the alternator too fast, mount a second alternator to the other side of the existing mounting pad. Use double pulley alternators. One pulley to the fan blade, the other pulley to the second alternator. Hook both battery leads to the battery bank. Ground both alternators with the same size wire as the positive leads back to the neg post of the battery bank. If you use the cheap available GM alternators from the seventies and eighties, just hook the #2 connection to a switch to turn the charging on or off. when left on, it will charge the battery pack to about 13.5 volts. Use separate switches to control the amount of charging according to wind conditions. If the fan and wind have the power, you could add two more alternators to a fabricated mounting pad 180 degrees from the one shown. Just keep adding the cheap alternators until you have reached the limits of your wind-fan combination.

Now how do you convert that battery power to heat.?

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#96
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/31/2008 3:19 PM

Thanks Bob!

Now how do you convert that battery power to heat.?

Well, I have read some of the refs provided by Edignan and I will be scouting around to source and cost materials (what, if anything, is cheap and available here? good question). I still have some reading, thinking and testing to do...many factors to consider. And of course, as yet no materials on hand to dig right in...

The way this brain works, it can only take so many new inputs before switching to 'slow processing' mode for awhile..

To be honest, I feel warmer already!!

cheers and happy new year...

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#97
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/31/2008 3:26 PM

Good luck and keep us posted!

Don't forget junk and surplus yards!

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#98
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/31/2008 3:34 PM

I sure will keep you posted. And good luck to you as well, happy new year and thanks again for the good advice and leads.

Cheers!

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#92
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/30/2008 3:03 PM

You need to make sure you get a heavy duty nifgt... if you get a regular one and try and connect it between the battery bank and the circulator it will just give you trouble..

Del
(KrisDelTM have some really heavy nifgts)

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#94
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Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/31/2008 9:44 AM

Right. Those nifgts that they brought in from that large country in the orient were nothing but trouble.

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#56

Re: Simple Energy-Saving Ideas that Don't Cost Anything

12/25/2008 8:16 PM

I heard an interesting comment recently. Digital "photo" frames consume about 5 watts continuously and are being sold at about 100,000 units a month.

Hmmm.....

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