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Lighting Arrestor Safety Zone

12/30/2008 1:41 AM

If a lightining arrestor is fixed on top of the building what is the safe zone area or what is the safe distence with in which a same height building can be constructed with out a lightning arrestor at the top of the building?

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#1

Re: lightning arrestor safe zone

12/30/2008 2:54 AM

Haven't seen too many lightning storms I presume? The answer is no safe distance.

The lightening rod on the top of one building has little to do with protecting adjacent structures.

It has everything to do with attempting to channel the lightning energy safely to ground with the least damage as possible to the building it does strike.

I have witnessed lightening storms that had almost continuous strikes, dozens per minute. Nothing would convince me that one structure was less likely to get hit than another, rod or not. I saw strikes to lower objects right next to taller metal structures. I saw 33kV take a direct hit and fall into the 12kV - that was a light show. There were all shapes and colors, one that looked just like an eyeball that lasted about a minute, and more than half was not directed to ground but horizontally.

In my humble experience there is no way to determine safety to any structure of any height simply due to a tall nearby structure having a lightening rod.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: lightning arrestor safe zone

12/30/2008 4:50 AM

Surely if you have a certificate saying it's safe, that would work?

KrisDelTM have an extensive range of certificates which will protect against all sorts of events, at a ludicrous very reasonable cost.

Del

(GA from me)

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#7
In reply to #2

Re: lightning arrestor safe zone

12/31/2008 3:48 PM

Hey, that sounds like a new lucrative internet site to me.

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#3
In reply to #1

Re: lightning arrestor safe zone

12/30/2008 7:42 AM

A very good answer! I live very near a tall steel TV antenna and have seen lightning strike well inside the radius.

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#6
In reply to #1

Re: lightning arrestor safe zone

12/31/2008 11:53 AM

GA for a better than GREAT answer!

How people can finance a building and not have enough left over to do the final job of Lightning conductors properly is really laughable........if it was not so serious.

We have a saying in Germany "He saves money no matter what it costs!". I wonder if the original Blogger will understand that fully?????

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#4

Re: Lighting Arrestor Safety Zone

12/31/2008 10:01 AM

There is the concept of a "cone of protection" under a lightning rod or some other "grounded item" that will draw the lightning to it. BUT, DO NOT TRUST THIS WORD "PROTECTION".

The traditional explanation of lightning is that corona (flow of electric charge in the air) begins to form and flow through the air when the air's electric field strength is above a value. The formation of corona is dependent upon temperature, humidity, electric field strength, the "sharpness" of the objects, how well objects are grounded, is there smoke in the air, how much radon gas is being emitted from the ground (yes, I'm serious on these), etc. This corona flows through the air, often going up, and can form a "preferred path" for the really big spark to follow as it comes down from the cloud.

What is the point of the previous paragraph? Well, normally (don't bet life or valuable property on it) lightning will tend to strike the tall, pointed, grounded objects due to them producing a corona path in the air. Thus, there might seem to be a "cone of protection" around the lightning rod (tall tree, grounded tower, tall building, etc.). Normally there is statistical truth to this. Always it is stupid to assume this concept will keep a person safe.

A good example of the "cone of protection" is the way NASA protects the shuttle launch pads at KSC. Do a little Googling and find a high resolution image of the launch pads. Above the metal structure is a round fiberglass pipe sticking up into the air. This pipe is about 6 feet in diameter (close enough for this discussion) and sticks up about 100 feet (close enough for this discussion) above the shuttle. In a high resolution image you can see that a 1/2" diameter stainless steel cable runs up from the ground on one side of the tower, through a pulley at the top of the fiberglass pipe and back down to the ground on the other side of the tower. This grounded cable running over the top of the shuttle was to draw all the lightning to it and protect the "cone of launch pad and support equipment" under it. I went to a seminar about 20 years ago and they had not yet had a single failure of this system to protect what was under it.

Now, to add some fine print to the NASA story. They had sensors on the cable to detect if the cable was struck by lightning. In the event of a strike they had inspection procedures for the launch pad equipment to look for problems. In addition, people were not allowed to work outside during a storm. The "cone of protection" was NEVER trusted to provide human safety. The "cone of protection" did reduced the overall money cost and schedule cost (due to damaged equipment) associated with thunderstorms.

The "cone of protection" was NOT used to reduce the human labor money cost or the human labor schedule cost associated with storms. Safety first.

If you have ever seen high speed video of lightning strikes you may have seen many strikes often have the corona ladder going up and 4-7 (or more) returning "lightning strikes" separated by a dozen or so milliseconds. During a windy storm the "hot channel" from a strike will be blown away from the initial strike point. The next strike quite possibly will have a "preferred path" down this "hot channel". Thus, the second strike might miss the lightning rod (or whatever took the first hit) and move downwind a few feet (or more). Even if the "cone of protection" worked for the first strike, some of the 4-7 "flickering strikes" might miss the lightning rod and cause your cone of protection to go up in smoke.

Even if the "cone of protection" works, remember that there is no such thing as "ground". As the tens or hundreds of thousands of amps of current comes down from the cloud there will be a very hazardous current density set up in the "ground" around the point of each strike. As you are standing under the tree the huge amount of current flowing in the ground may find that the path of least resistance is to go up your left leg, through your body and back down your right leg. Thus, in a working "cone of protection" you could be killed from the bottom up instead of the top down.

SAFETY FIRST

DON'T TRUST INFORMATION YOU GET FROM STRANGERS OVER THE INTERNET

PLEASE RE-READ THE PART WHERE I SAID THAT IT IS STUPID TO ASSUME A "CONE OF PROTECTION" WILL KEEP A PERSON SAFE!

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Lighting Arrestor Safety Zone

12/31/2008 10:57 AM

Very GA. Unfortunately I can only give a GA.

I have seen several diagrams showing a "Cone of Protection" for lightning arrestors, but you gave an excellent discussion on how and why they can "break down" and not work as expected. Lightning is unpredictable stuff, and the severe storms that produces lightning should be respected and treated with extreme caution. Any safety system for these types of events will not be perfect, so plan accordingly.

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#8

Re: Lighting Arrestor Safety Zone

01/01/2009 2:12 AM

Years ago I had to do some Lightning protection design for an outdoor PA system for the USAF in Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA. I ran into the concept of "cone of protection", and found that, as stated before, it was really a statistical probability distribution plan, and thus, unless you wanted to gamble with life, not reliable. I also ran into the idea of the "charge drain" method of protection, which essentially designs for a method to "bleed off" the charge between the earth and the clouds above before a strike path could form, and a strike occur. NASA, along with the NOAA had done a great deal of research on both, and had come to the tentative conclusion that the "charge bleed" idea had more merit than the "cone of protection idea", but that neither was a worthwhile gamble with lives at stake. The result of my studies was that we devised a "sacrificial charge gap", very similar to the carbon block protector that used to be installed in telephone lines to house, but with the addition of Metal Oxide Varistors, used to attentuate the charge, but more importantly to slow the rate of current change, and create a 90 degree lag between the voltage change leading edge and the current change leading edge. This, all together, had the effect of "snubbing" the total power buildup to keep either E or I relatively low compared to each other at any point in the waveform. Keep in mind, though, that relatively low is indeed relative, when the research at the time put the average highest current passed in a lightning strike in excess of 275 KA, and the maximum voltage in excess of 375KV, with the entire process of ramp up to maximum and decay to zero, even for a strike with multiple pulses, taking no more than 10 ms. So there is a potential for E*I, if neither is snubbed, and the development of both current and voltage is near simultaneous (there is some delay due to cloud capacitance no matter what the storm conditions are, thus I will always lead E by a small phase shift) to reach the product of these two values, or around 103 trillion watts of power (someone else will have to convert that to Joules, but its definitely in the GJoule range, I'd think) in 10 thousands of a second. And that's one BIG ARC! The result, modelled, but never directly testable, was a total power maximum in the low MW range, as opposed to the high GW range. And when we experienced our first lightning storm after installation, the two 3USD (in 1000 quantities, in 1986) devices in the charge path blew out and saved our 8 mile long, 000 gauge copper cable runs, and our 3.75 KWatts of power amps, at the expense of 3 speakers costing a total of 45USD, and two "protectors" at 6USD. We were satisfied, to say the least.

Incidentally, the "multiple stroke path" discussed before is called a "stepped leader" and is the formation of a plasma channel of superheated air, which has significantly lower resistance than the same distance in even damp air (on the order of 1 ohm per 100 feet, vice 10Kohms per inch). It doesn't last long, and as noted is susceptible to strong air currents, being often bent as much as 30-90 feet sideways, over its typical 5000-15000 foot length, in the winds commonly experienced in a lightning storm. In fact, strange to note, when NOAA flew a retired F-104 Starfighter (I think that's the proper name, the number is right, according the articles I read) through a storm to attract a lightning bolt, wanting to study that channel bending phenomenon, they found small "rosettes" where the arc hit the outer fuselage of the plane. But what was amazing was that the entry point, during a supersonic pass through the storm, was near the tail section of the plane, and the exit point was nearer the nose. Since that model is mostly just a fire-filled tube with a pilot sitting on it, the arc had to enter the skin, travel forward by some path through the engine, and exit on the opposite side of that fire-filled tube. The assumption was that the current travelled around the skin of the engine, bypassing the supersonic, superheated jet of gases propelling it. Examination of the tube after the engine cooled showed that the arc in fact entered aft, crossed into the gas channel, travelled upstream against the flow, entered the opposite wall of the tube, passed through it, and left the plane. It did all of this with a right-angled diversion AGAINST the flow inside the engine. The plane was also caught on video tape "dragging" the lightning bolt as it passed through the plane, so that the bolt was bent almost 500 feet out of its path, to form a 90 degree vee between its top and bottom ends.

I know all that has nothing to do with the idea of "safe zones" and "cones of protection", but it appears to me that if we know so little about lightning after all the studies we've done that we can neither explain nor predict that behaviour, we're a lot better off ignoring statistical probabilities and designing for all the built-in safety we can get.

And with potential Giga-Watt discharges at stake, even that will still be plenty iffy.

Micah

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#9

Re: Lighting Arrestor Safety Zone

01/01/2009 8:04 AM

One point not mentioned. Inductance per linear foot of conductor is higher for conductors with small perimeters. Ben Franklin found this out when one of his early installations melted the down lead. After that he used hollow tubes or rectangular cross sectioned iron conductors.

Low inductance is important with a fast current rise time to minimize V = L * dI/dt. If V gets too high, cross flashing results, as mentioned by other posters. Low resistance is important, too, to minimize V = R * I. Atmospheric charge bleeds rapidly through the lowest available impedance path.

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#10
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Re: Lighting Arrestor Safety Zone

01/01/2009 11:42 AM

Good point well explained. Thanks.

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