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jorge carmona
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Join Date: Jan 2009
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Flange Facing Finish - R9 Designation

01/07/2009 10:24 AM

Hi, I'm trying to find information about R9 for Flange facing finish, looks like this is the designation in Europe for serrated or phonographic finishing in flanges. If you have a link where I can find information about R9 please let me know.
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sb
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#1

Re: FLANGE FACING FINISH R9

01/07/2009 11:25 AM

Pl look at the link, it seems R9 means ANSI Class 900 Ring joint (page 10 of the file)

euedocs.emersonprocess.co.uk/groups/public/documents/markcom/pds_rosemount_1495_e.pdf

And thus it means it is not phonographic rather it has a ring groove for a o ring to be used for sealing.

These are also called RTJ flanges (Ring Type Joint) and covered under API (if I remember Sec 6) or ASME B16.5

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Abdel Halim Galala
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Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member Egypt - Member - Member since 02/18/2007

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: FLANGE FACING FINISH R9

01/08/2009 2:18 AM

Dear sb, you are right.

Also, for additional information about Flange Facing Finish:

In pressure vessel construction only gasket seats of flanges, studded openings, ... etc. require special finish beyond that afforded by turning, grinding or milling.

The surface finish for flange facing shall have certain roughness regulated by Standard ASME B16.5. The roughness is repetitive deviation from the nominal surface having specified depth and width.

Raised faced flange shall have serrated finish having 24 to 40 grooves per inch. The cutting tool shall have an approximate 0.06 in. or larger radius resulting 500 microinch approximate roughness (ASME B16.5 - 6.3.4.1) The side wall surface of gasket groove of ring joint flange shall not exceed 63 microinch roughness (ASME B16.5 - 6.3.4.3). Other finishes may be furnished by agreement between user and manufacturer.

The finish of contact faces shall be judged by visual comparison with Standard ASME B46-1.The center part of blind flanges need not to be finished within a diameter which equals or less than the bore minus one inch of the Joining flange, ( ASME B16.5 - 6.3.3).

Surface symbol used to designate roughness √ is placed either on the line indicating the surface or on a leader leader pointing to the surface as shown below. The numbers: 500 and 63 indicate the height of roughness; letter "c" the direction of surface pattern: "concentric-serrated".

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vidyadhar deodhar
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#3
In reply to #2

Re: FLANGE FACING FINISH R9

01/08/2009 12:37 PM

Dear sir,

At the moment I donot remember exact wording regarding raised face finjsh as per asme b 16.3-2003.But it is somethjng like given bellowas per close 6.4.4.3.( close no may be difrent) exact wording I will give you in coupl of days as standard is not in front of me.

' Raised face should be serrated either spiral or concentric with resulting surface finsh 125 to 250 µ inch ( 3.2 to 6.3 µ m) with cutting tool redius 0.062" (1.6mm) or more.with 45 to 55 grooves per inch. '

As I understand ring joint and other type of facing such as, male and female, tongu and groove are having no serration but surface finish should be not more than 125 µ inch (3.2 µ m ). And finish on ring groove 1.6 µm max.

Please coorct me if I am wrong.

Thank you.

V.D.DEODHAR.
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babybear
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#4
In reply to #2

Re: FLANGE FACING FINISH R9

01/09/2009 10:36 PM

Hello Abdel Halim Galala:

Happy new year to you my friend.

And a GA for the detail in your response.

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Abdel Halim Galala
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#6
In reply to #4

Re: FLANGE FACING FINISH R9

01/10/2009 12:55 AM

Dear babybear,

Thank you very much and Happy New Year & Merry Crestmas to you and all my friends of CR4.

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babybear
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#7
In reply to #6

Re: FLANGE FACING FINISH R9

01/10/2009 1:00 AM

Hello Abdel Halim Galala:

Thank you very much and Happy New Year & Merry Crestmas to you and all my friends of CR4.

No problem, your GA! And thank you for your new year wish also!

Take care................

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Anonymous Poster
#12
In reply to #2

Re: FLANGE FACING FINISH R9

04/21/2010 12:02 PM

Excellent answer.
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Anonymous Poster
#13
In reply to #2

Re: FLANGE FACING FINISH R9

07/27/2010 3:23 AM

The information provided by you is very godd
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babybear
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#5
In reply to #1

Re: FLANGE FACING FINISH R9

01/09/2009 10:42 PM

Hello sb,

Take care and a GA for you for your diligence.

Do you ever sleep? I am sure someone reading the standards for perhaps the first few times or someone in a hurry collating fact could easily have assumed they had found the correct answer. Without you vigilance and knowledge the OP may have carries on with his plans. Very well spotted, or is it you know that off by heart?

You prevented a possible dangerous error anyway.

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sb
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#9
In reply to #5

Re: FLANGE FACING FINISH R9

01/10/2009 12:16 PM

My area of operation is too vast (in my years of service in OEM, it spans from hydraulics, to gears to Turbines all the related products, so flanges, pipe lines ets are a part of our work.

I was in QC earlier so the standards are there with me and when ever i had problems i searhed the nets and down loaded parts in the resp folder so when some body talks about flange, if i have information (memory) i go to the folder and check the site address if there.

Some times we have the literatures from other sources so no references there.

(As you know in QC it was my job to prevent errors and what i have seen in my long associations that a whole lot of errors are created by misunderstanding and misinterpretations)

Any way thanks for the appreciations (we are always there to help and get helped)

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babybear
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#11
In reply to #9

Re: FLANGE FACING FINISH R9

01/11/2009 4:49 AM

Hello sb,

You are a real professional! I wonder if there is as many Engineers training now or just finished, who would be so conscientious?

Of course, it also makes your work easier when you have details to hand?

Sounds like you have a hell of a lot of experience sb?

Also sounds like you enjoy a challenge and actually like your work!

Take care. I will save that link as there is detail on it that can be used in other applications. I am thinking of the different Standards Agencies listed near the bottom.

I like the drawings as well. Makes things a lot easier to understand?

On the 1495 PG Concentric Paddle, are the circles there to help keep it in place on the flanges?

Happy new year.............

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vidyadhar deodhar
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#8

Re: Flange Facing Finish - R9 Designation

01/10/2009 11:39 AM

Dear sir,

For flange facing finish as per ASME B16.5:2003 as follws.

6.4.5 Flange Facing Finish. : Flange facing finishes shall be in accorance with paras 6.4.5.1 throughes 6.4.5.3 except that other finishes may be furnished by agreement between the user and the manufacturer.fifish of gasket contact face shall be judged by visual comparison with Ra standard (ASME B46.1) and not by instruments having stylus and electronic amplification.

6.4.5.1 : Tongue and Groove and Small Male and Female, The gasket contact surface finish shall not exeed 3.2 µ m (125µ in) roughness.

6.4.5.2 : Ring Joint. The side wall surface finish of the gasket shall not exeed 1.6µ m (63 µ in) roughness.

6.4.5.3 : Other Flange Facings : Either a serrated concentric or serrated sprial finish having a resultant surface finish from 3.2 to 6.3 µ m ( 125 to 250 µ in ) average roughness shall be furnished. The cutting tool employed should have an approximate 1.5mm ( 0.06 in ) or larger radius , and ther should be from 1.8 grooves/mm through 2.2 groovs/mm ( 45 grooves/in through 55 grooves/in)

In ring joint flange I know ring no smallest is R11 thru R65 .(may be more but i do not know)

But i have not understood 'R9 Flange facing finish' after going thru so many comments. This is as per which standard?

Thank you.

V.D.DEODHR.
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sb
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#10
In reply to #8

Re: Flange Facing Finish - R9 Designation

01/10/2009 12:18 PM

Look at the link on #1

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Abdel Halim Galala (2); Anonymous Poster (2); babybear (4); sb (3); vidyadhar deodhar (2)

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