Laminating Cast Steel Plate

Without a solid one piece construction I would be concerned that the plate doing all the work would thin out to the point of shattering or splintering and contaminating the end product. You would also be wearing down the pins holding them together. If they're swedged or riveted they may fall out. If it is for consumption the glue would have to be very strong and non toxic.

The plate gets ground both sides, so one plate would not be thinner than the other as it was ground down. The smallest measurement I could grind down to would be about 20mm, so I dont think strength would be a problem. Both plates would be about 20mm each, when stuck together. I just need a good glue that will keep the plates from sliding against each other.

The product is not for human consumption.

I would be extremely reluctant to try "Glueing" the plates together. The plates are obviously highly stressed and I don't believe you could find a glue that is man enough for the job. If the plates are cast they can be welded together. You will need a qualified welder with the correct welding procedure (electrode type, polarity, preheat temperature, number of passes)

BoL

Stewie

These plates are held at the perimeter and compressed bone/meat is pushed into them with a screw auger, with a scraper blade on both sides?. Two or more plates can be aligned with pins or other indexing means to prevent rotation and used as long as the depth of the holding fixture is enough. You wold start with one good plate and one worn plate and they would wear on one side only, regrind as needed and once the thinner plate got to 5 MM it would be time to use the old one which is now at 20MM as the thin one and use another new one. This way they would be worn down to 5 MM, and there would always be enough strength as we know one 10mm plate is fine.

the sides that face each other, will not get ground down, so the end stage will be using plates to 5 MM from 20 = 80% useage

It really all conjecture until you know exactly what material you have, as well as the specific method of fabrication including any chemical or heat treatment.

While one responder posted that if the material is cast, then it is weldable... this isn't always the case, and often significant new stresses are added in welding cast material.

Once you know exactly what you are working with, it will be easy to evaluate the various methods of joining. With the large closely joining surfaces, you should look into oven brazing or bronzing, or perhapos some form of sintering. Oven Brazing would provide a very strong joint, and since it requires much lover temperature, will not subject the peice to udue stresses that would require post heat treatment if welding were used.

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I think from the description that this metal can not be welded. It sounds way to hard (high carbon steel?) from what I can tell. I think that some people assume that all metals can be welded as long as you use a certified welderI have to wonder how the plates attach to the machine? This could be your answer in that you might redesign the bolts or pins so they go through both plates and maybe add threads to hold them together with a nut set up of some sort. It is really hard to tell exactly what you have here without a drawing. I do not know of any glue that would hold the plates together without at least some sort of mechanical attachment.

The key here is the base material being used to start with. Is the material stainless steel or nickel or even a titanium alloy? All these require a different process and parameters. I wonder about if you were to make a backing plate of a mild steel that could would be the main base and then either brazed or even siver soldered the other plate to it into a sandwitch construction. Is there any rotation of the blade and if there is how much torque is there to create a shear stress on the joint.

Another possibility is to spotweld the 2 together.

A 3rd option is to inertia weld them together. This is where you have them rotating at high speeds in opposite directions and move them together using the friction to heat and weld the pieces together. While not pretty. this is fast and very strong.

Bottom line is that I think we need a lot more additional information to solve your problem. Then we can help advise you with the proper proceedure and materials, whatever they may be.

My initial thought was to furnace braze two or perhaps more plates together. The idea of using a filler plate of a cheaper alloy has merit also. That would allow two thinner worn out plates to be used on either side of a filler plate.

I would be afraid of pinning or bolting or even welding as the possibility of material entering the small void between the plates would create a sanitation problem if this is any kind of a food operation.

At any rate, one would have to watch the thickness of the face plates, asuming a sandwich arangement, to pull the assembly from service before the thin section began to break away and contaminate the product, if that is a problem. This may be a bone meal for plant food operation for all I know.

Have FUN!
TT3

Check out Belzona epoxy GOOD STUFF but a little pricey. In a case like this if the two plates are prepared properly and especially if two or more locating dowels were incorporated you would have a hard time separating them even if you were trying to.

I would think the worst part of the job would be drilling the dowel holes if the steel is as hard as you say.

Tim is correct Belazona is good stuff and if anything will work Belazona could be it. I have used many of the Belazona products but not sure it would work for laminating plates without a mechanical fastener to help hold it. I have used it to repair leaks in pipe lines and it lasts for a couple of years no problem. With Belazona it is all about how well you clean and prep the surfaces of the metal.

http://www.belzona.com/service.aspx

Contact these people check the feasibility of lamination

To answer a couple of questions asked earlier.

The plates are probably a high carbon steel. We grind each side of the plates to sharpen the hole edges as they tend to get nicks on them. We have found in the past that when they get too thin, the develop cracks and then shatter. The plates are held in place with a big nut which presses on the outside part of the plate, probably only an inch, with a centering pin about 80mm in dia. There are about 430 holes in each plate which the meat and bone passes through. The plate also has a notch on the outside which fits over a lug on the barrel to stop it spinning with the screw part of the mincer.

An engineering firm tried laminating previously with a cheap glue and dowels but it came apart after a couple of hours. Hygiene is not an issue. It was suggested we leave the faces rough when initially laminating for a better contact with the glue.

I am determined to try it, as the plates are over $1000 ea and are only used about 10 times before being discarded. Each time they are used we run them inplave for about 12 hours before changing them.

Have you investigated perhaps having the plates cryogenically treated? Significant increases in wear resistance is achieved particularly in higher carbon steel. That would give these expensive pieces a longer useful life. I do not know your location, but would offer more information if desired. Dave K.

Davek1 I am in the lucky country Australia, (If you lived in Victoria you wouldn't think so with all the fires though). What is cryogenic treatment?

Check out this page in Au: http://coldfire.com.au/

They apparently do automotive work primarily but they also do industrial also. Cryogenic treatment is beneficial in that it reduces stress cracking by reliving the built in internal stresses in metal. Yahoo and Google are your friend if one only knows how to ask.

Have FUN!

TT3

We've had some contact with Australia. Yes, you folks are in our thoughts here in the U.S. Terrible situation there, the destruction and loss of life. FYI, check out 300below.com for information on deep cryogenic processing. Like I said, it is something to consider for the appropriate material. Dave, dkimmel@300below.com

After reading some more info I would like to throw out the possible applications of ceramics to the problem. They are strong and can be made to very hard and durable specs. What is the diameter of the plate? Holes? Do the holes have to be aligned between the 2 plates?

I am leaning more and more towards having them brazed together, but is there a reason that they really have to be "glued" together? Is the push from one or multiple directions?

If it is like the small grinder/mincer that my mother uses to make great ham salad, as long as you have some way to index them and can keep them from turning it would only be a matter of making sure that they were at a uniform thickness and flat on both sides so that they sit level. From that point on if the force is only from one side then it makes no difference if they are fastened or not as the pressure of the meat/bone will be pressing them together.

When they wear it would simply be a matter then of refacing one surface and reinstalling them. You could have a couple ready to go all the time so that you could replace them quickly and lessen down time.