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Matching Solar or Wind Turbines to Battery Banks

02/19/2009 3:17 AM

Hi, I have a MCI 8 tour bus that I have running on WVO. Now in an effort to go as green as possible I want to run all of my systems either solar or wind powered. Eventually both combined. I want to be totally self sufficient.

Right now I have a 12 volt 5000 watt inverter (modified sine) with a bank of 6 (tired) AGM batteries. I was able to go 4 1/2 days between charges when first installed (used). I have the capacity to hold 12 batteries in the rack I have. I live in the bus full time but use my power sparingly. Small dorm fridge (for now) will replace with 3 way at some point, small microwave, espresso machine, 2 flat panel tv's, laptop, printer and lighting.

I heat the bus with a diesel fired Proheat (12 volt)that has a house type 110 dc circulator pump. I plan on using passive solar heat but keeping the Proheat for my onboard centrifuge system for cleaning my WVO.

I am working on solar LED lighting right now that I will make from small solar landscape lighting I found very cheap. They will have there own battery bank or separate batteries for each light. So they don't need to be calculated into the overall system. (they are my solar:101 project)

I charge my current setup with a Smart charger and will keep it for emergency use.

So a few things I need to know is.

Charge controller size and how many batteries will they handle?

How many panels will I need for a 12 battery 12 volt bank?

Will a 400 watt wind turbine combined with the solar help me limit my solar needs?

Where can I find really good info in terms I can understand so I don't ask stupid or redundant questions?

Does this seam too far fetched?

Thanks

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#1

Re: Matching Solar/Wind turbine to Battery bank

02/19/2009 7:29 AM

Need to know the amp hour capacity of the batteries. What ever you come up with divide it by number of hours of usable power you will get from what ever source you plan on providing to your charger. That will be the number of amps output from the charger you will need. I am only familiar with industrial batteries and there chargers. Most look at about a 6 hour charge time.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Matching Solar/Wind turbine to Battery bank

02/19/2009 1:28 PM

Thanks for your reply, I find battery info very difficult to learn as amp hours are rated and explained in so many different ways.

The batteries I am looking at are UPS12-475 12v 134 ah @ 20 hr rate 12v 475 watts/cell @ 15min rate.

UPS12-475 - Specifications

Cells Per Unit

Voltage Per Unit

Weight

Electrolyte

Maximum
Discharge Current

Short Circuit Current

Ohms Imped.
60 Hz

6 12.84 100lbs.
45 kg.
Absorbed H

2SO4
SG = 1.300

800 Amps 5000 Amps
@ 0.1 sec.
0.0023 Ohms

Capacity

475 watts per cell at the 15 minute rate to 1.67 volts per cell at 77°F (25°C).
134 Ah @ 20 hr. rate to 1.75 volts per cell @ 77°F (25°C).
122 Ah @ 10 hr. rate to 1.80 volts per cell @ 20°C (68°F).

Operating Temperature Range

Discharge; -40°F (-40°C) to +160°F (71°C).

Charge; -10°F (-23°C) to +140°F (60°C). (with temperature compensation)

Nominal Operating Temperature Range

+74°F (23°C) to +80°F (27°C).

Float Charging Voltage

13.5 to 13.8 VDC/unit Average at 77°F (25°C).

Recommended Maximum Charging Current Limit

C/5 amperes (27 amperes @ 100% depth of discharge).

Equalization and Cycle Service Charging Voltage

14.4 to 14.8 VDC/unit Average at 77°F (25°C).

Maximum AC Ripple (Charger)

0.5% RMS or 1.5% P-P of float charge voltage recommended for best results.
Maximum voltage allowed = 1.4% RMS (4%P-P).
Maximum current allowed = 6.7 amperes (C/20).

Self Discharge

Dynasty UPS batteries may be stored for up to 6 months at 77°F (25°C) and then a freshening charge is required. For higher temperatures the time interval will be shorter.

Accessories

Inter unit connectors, racks and cabinet systems are available.

Terminal

Threaded brass inserts to accept 0.25" (6mm) bolt.

Terminal Hardware Torque

110 in.-lbs. (12.4 N-m)



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#3

Re: Matching Solar or Wind Turbines to Battery Banks

02/20/2009 12:10 AM

Hi

I design solar (PV) and hydro-electric systems for a living. Your charge controller will be dictated by the size of your solar array, not the battery bank. It needs to be sized to handle the maximum amperage delivered by your solar array. Your wind turbine will need a diversion load controller to divert amperage in excess of your battery bank capacity eg., for heating water or air. Your solar array size is dependent on your projected loads not the size of your battery bank. If you have wind it will certainly help with power production; day-to-day reliability will determine if you can get by with a smaller array. I usually size a battery bank to meet 3-4 days of load requirements. I am happy to answer any questions you have (stupid or redundant). You need to know what your daily power consumption is (expected to be), your daily insolation (amount of good sun on a given day), expected wind, and then you can come up with a system design.

C.Deacon

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: Matching Solar or Wind Turbines to Battery Banks

04/17/2009 10:06 PM

Ok...lol! I am a disabled vet. Very retired. Just bought my dream house. Want to stay very green. I need to know how many like 200 or 400w wind turbines it will take to keep say 20 deep cycle batteries charged. an will that be sufficient to run lights (the low volt) a couple tvs, a fridge, the ocasional washer load, an 2 computers? I have a plan but dont know if its right ...or if I am gettin ready to commit some serious overkill....rofl! Gimme a shout if yall dont mind thanks!!

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Matching Solar or Wind Turbines to Battery Banks

04/17/2009 10:26 PM

Hi there-

You're kind of putting the cart before the horse. You need to determine how much power you'll be using and then size the system, including batteries. Are you grid connected? Your power bill will tell you your daily power consumption, and then go from there. I don't think it's too "green" to be running 2 computers and a couple of tv's... part of being electricity independent is moderating your loads or you end paying a lot of extra $$$$$ to cover superfluous appliances.

Think of your batteries as a water tank. It doesn't matter how big the tank is, it matters how much is coming in and how fast it's going out.

Good luck.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Matching Solar or Wind Turbines to Battery Banks

04/17/2009 10:39 PM

Ahh right on....I use about 2100 kwh a month an need to build a system to handle about 3/4s of that. No the home in question is not connected. I really want to keep it that way...lol! Just not sure what I need to build a bank for that kind of usage an what it would take to charge it. Thanks

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Matching Solar or Wind Turbines to Battery Banks

04/17/2009 11:03 PM

Do you mean 210 kWh? 2100kWh = 70kWh/day or three times the average USA house. If it is 7kVA/day you can set up a system affordably. 70KVA is an order of magnitude more expensive.

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Matching Solar or Wind Turbines to Battery Banks

04/18/2009 12:22 AM

Yeah I use about 2000 kwh a month give or take. Not really about the money just want to be self sufficient but not sure what it would take as far as battery banks and wind generators. I will not be keeping the hot water heater, stove, or central air so my usage is going to drop quite a bit. Any ideas on where to start?

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Matching Solar or Wind Turbines to Battery Banks

04/18/2009 12:33 AM

Where do you live?

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Matching Solar or Wind Turbines to Battery Banks

04/18/2009 12:38 AM

Well the house in question is on a mountain in west virginia with lots of clearance from trees and other obstructions but I am in bama' at the moment

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Matching Solar or Wind Turbines to Battery Banks

04/18/2009 1:01 AM

If you're taking this on yourself, you'll need to do a wind survey and find out if there is enough, and how much, wind throughout the day for viable power production. Then go from there. If you have a creek, look into micro-hydro; it is the most cost-effective for independent electricity production. Beyond that is solar (photovoltaics) which run $6-$7/watt retail. On a five hour solar day (winter) you'll need a 14KVA array or $84-$98k into panels... this does not include inverters, charge controller, etc.... You're looking at a $100,000+ system to provide 70kVA/day. Again, an average US home uses 1/3 of this a day and, hence, 1/3 the cost for a system. Check homepower.com to get you started.

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#13
In reply to #5

Re: Matching Solar or Wind Turbines to Battery Banks

04/20/2009 7:58 AM

I have not seen what other answers you have already but it also depends on how much wind and how often the wind blows.....

I would suggest that you start small, learn a lot and expand slowly. This is especially easy if you are also a DIY man and like to make things yourself. Google what you are looking for and you will find lots of infos from people who have already made such items.

I personally only favour VAWTs as they are relatively easy to build, though not quite as efficient (then build 2). You should do well NOT to follow the "Efficiency God" as when there is no wind at all, they are perfectly equal......

Make sure you have a good way to bring it to a halt in high winds and hold it there.....safety first.

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#4

Re: Matching Solar or Wind Turbines to Battery Banks

02/20/2009 10:28 AM

Are your batteries normal Lead Acid or Leisure batteries. I assume they are not leisure for what I am about to say.

Lead acid batteries of the size/quality you have should last almost forever if you look after them properly and never over discharge them. Look around on the web for full destails, but try NEVER to discharge them below 2.1 volts per cell......check the manufacturers recommendations first.

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