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Anonymous Poster

Sewage Pump for Residential Service

02/23/2009 11:30 PM

Though it may be a small job but we require suggestions/guidance for selecting a sewage pump for a residential purpose.A septic tank with dimensions of 13'x4'x4' having a volume of around 5900 lts is constructed and with 6 members residing with the volume expected @ 200lts/person the tank may get filled in 4 to 5 days.Appreciate If someone can suggest without any reservations ,the capacity & head requirement and also the type of pump.The outlet line is 50 mm dia and the discharge line is 16 ft from the bottom of the septic tank.

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Guru

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sebring, Florida
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#1

Re: Sewage Pump for Residential Service

02/25/2009 12:14 AM

Septic tanks that have a drop in container that includes a grinder for the solids are regularly used in low pressure systems in Florida and I am sure in similar situations where residential sewage is piped into a low pressure sewage distribution system. They are also installed where there is insufficient fall in the waste plumbing due to regulations where by the system is called a mound system. This is where the drain field is constructed at or about ground level and the waste exits below the slab of houses that are constructed just above the existing grade. The purpose of this is to prevent homes from having to be constructed on un acceptable mounds of fill.

These systems are available by" giggling "septic systems in Florida. Take a look!

Tmf

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Anonymous Poster
#2
In reply to #1

Re: Sewage Pump for Residential Service

02/25/2009 12:35 AM

Thanks for immediate response but my question is not addressed .Appreciate for guidance.

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Guru

Join Date: Mar 2008
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#7
In reply to #2

Re: Sewage Pump for Residential Service

02/25/2009 9:35 AM

Maybe you should look with your eyes instead of your mouth, (fingers). This is what my mom said to me when ever I asked for answers to questions that I could easily find for myself, that is if I even bothered to look. The answers to your question is readily available on line and is provided free of charge by the manufacturers information regarding these kinds of products.

TMF.

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Anonymous Poster
#17
In reply to #1

Re: Sewage Pump for Residential Service

03/15/2009 5:14 PM

Thanks, Too Much; different visitor here. Am intrigued by your suggestion...for use in a residence in Calif...where the slope of a single waste pipe is too shallow to prevent occasional sluggish flow/siphoning at toilets along its length. I am aware of septic pumps that can be installed in basements and such, but have wondered if similar systems could be installed inline, buried (perhaps with auxiliary water source commanded by flushing) near the inlet of the septic tank...functioning somewhat like a vacuum...in that impeding water in the line is removed ahead of effluent from the house.

So my question for now would be, can you provide a reliable search-term string for finding out about the Florida type pumps/systems? Thanks

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#3

Re: Sewage Pump for Residential Service

02/25/2009 5:17 AM

More information needed.

Where do you live?

What are you going to do with the waste?

Is it being pumped into a leach field, lagoon, or loaded in a truck and hauled off for treatment? Health department frowns on raw sewage being pumped out on top of the ground in my area.

What type of tank?

Is it in or above ground? Pumping a plastic in ground tank dry can result in collapse or floating due to ground conditions.

If you do wish to pump it dry then how fast do you wish to do it?

Until we know this we are unable to give any useful numbers beyond those based on speculation.

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Commentator

Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 77
#10
In reply to #3

Re: Sewage Pump for Residential Service

02/25/2009 8:18 PM

It is an undewrground RCC tank and to be pumped to common drainline which is above the ground .

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Guru

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#12
In reply to #10

Re: Sewage Pump for Residential Service

02/25/2009 11:16 PM

Good evening pokalasrao

Though the mains are not always under ground, most in subdivisions and communities in this nation are. However many of these public waste disposal systems are classified as low pressure forced mains. The tanks are either pre-cast concrete or fiberglass. There is an opening on the top of one end for the pumping access when and if the tank ever needs to be pumped out. There is another on the other end/top where there is a smaller tank that can be placed inside of the larger tank and be suspended from the top. This is the area where the waste, liquids and solids enter the tank from the home or small business. The liquids are permitted to rise until they reach a level at which pumping becomes necessary. At this time the combo/pump/grinder activates by way of an automatic sensing switch/ sometimes float switch. The solids are ground small enough to be pumped into the low pressure main. Back flow is prevented by a standard check valve also known as a back flow preventer. The larger tanks are not pumped dry as they may become buoyant and pop out of the ground. No drain-field is needed with this kind of system. Human waste is known to carry and grow harmful pathogens, and never should be pumped to any area without proper treatment. I hope that I have explained enough about this Sh---y issue that we can all move on!

TMF

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#4

Re: Sewage Pump for Residential Service

02/25/2009 6:33 AM

A septic tank is designed to separate the solids from waste water. As water flows into the tank, the water slows, and what floats floats, what will sink, sinks. The tank is never empty except when the scum and sludge is pumped out every few years. Clarified water (effluent) will flow out to the the leach field and be absorbed into the soil. Sometimes the leach-field is higher than the tank outlet and a pump tank is used to boost the effluent into the leach field.

Is this the situation you have? Or do you have a sewerage holding tank and no leach-field. A holding tank will need to be pumped out every few days and the contents disposed of at an appropriate way.

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#5

Re: Sewage Pump for Residential Service

02/25/2009 6:59 AM

All of these questions should be answerable by a sales rep for a pump manufacturer. I would recommend talking to the representative of a large manufacturer and I am sure they would be glad to help size/spec your pump based on your needs.

Sounds like you definitely need some sort of grinder pump.

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Commentator

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Sewage Pump for Residential Service

02/25/2009 8:37 AM

yOU MAY FIND SOLUTIONS AT LIFTANDLUBE.COM

http://www.liftandlube.com/product_p/gra%20236265.htm

THIS IS A 1 INCH DIAPHRGAM PIMP IT CAN HANDLE SEMI-SOLIDS

http://www.liftandlube.com/Balcrank_1120_013_1_Air_Operated_DIAPHRAGM_PUMP_p/bal%201120-013.htm

THIS PUMP ALSO HANDLES SEMI SOLIDS TOO

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Commentator

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#9
In reply to #5

Re: Sewage Pump for Residential Service

02/25/2009 8:15 PM

already contacted the suppliers and they are giving different specs.I want to get real picture based on experience of our members.

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#8

Re: Sewage Pump for Residential Service

02/25/2009 9:52 AM

First of all, you are, I assume, pumping the EFFLUENT from the septic tank, not the contents. This means that you are pumping a liquid that has very few solids of any consequence. Therefore, you should choose an EFFLUENT pump. An EFFLUENT pump will only pass a solid having a diameter of 3/4" or less, but that will be adequate for this service.

Next, you are pumping through a 2" pipe that is approximately 16' below the level of the bottom of the tank. You don't say how far you are pumping, but EFFLUENT pumps are generally operating at 3450 RPM nominal speed and, therefore, will produce a rather high head. Certainly enough to overcome the friction loss in the 2" pipe for a distance of at least 300 to 400 feet.

The pump you choose will be located either in a separate chamber submerged in the septic tank as suggested by another respondent (however, I would not use the grinder pump, but rather the EFFLUENT pump) or it can be installed in a separate chamber installed after the septic tank. In any event, it would only pump about 25 to 30 gallons per operation. The level controls will be adjustable so the amount per cycle can be adjusted as well. Ideally, you want the pump to only pump about 2 to 3 minutes and then shut off.

The incoming flow entering the tank would be at a rate of approximately 600 gallons per day (6 members at 100 GPD each). That would be less than 1 gallon per minute. However, this flow might be substantially faster during peak hours of the day (breaksfast, lunch, etc). So a peaking factor of 5 would be warranted. That would allow approximately 5 GPM inflow and the pump will discharge at 25 GPM. Your pump should be rated at 25 GPM @ 25' TDH minimum.

An EFFLUENT pump will produce more head than that, and probably more flow as well. That is allowable. More is OK. The pump would probably be 1/3 to 1/2 HP operating on 115 volt or 230 volt current. A float system would be required to operate the pump. This can be as simple as an attached float on the side of the pump or it can be a system using three floats to start the pump, stop the pump and signal a high water alarm.

As has been suggested, a visit with a pump salesman is a good idea. I fit that description, but, since you have given all your data in Metric numbers, I suspect that I am far away from your location. And not to make this complicated, you can probably go to a local WalMart, Home Depot, Lowes or other department store and get this pump for about $250 US complete. A less dependable pump would be even less.

The point is, this is not a difficult probalem. It can be handled fairly inexpensively and satisfactorily with a little effort. Hope this helps.

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Anonymous Poster
#11
In reply to #8

Re: Sewage Pump for Residential Service

02/25/2009 8:27 PM

Thanks for giving a +ve response.As already informed different reps. are giving diff. specs.Some offered for semi solids,some for grinding pump with different capacity and heads,cast iron pumps and SS304 pumps.The tank volume is 6 cum. and pumps offered is 12 cum/hr. which indicates the tank can be emptied within half an hour.Is it wise to select that capacity pump or to go for 50% capacity.

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Power-User

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#13

Re: Sewage Pump for Residential Service

02/26/2009 10:58 AM

Greetings.

Sounds like you are talking about an "Engineered Septic". Look into the pump and three mercury floats that are used with the pump. The bottom float is a safety float in case the middle or pump float doesn't shut off ( hot pump no fluid plus methane type gas and BOOM)the top float is an alarm float that is attached to an alarm( your choice buzzer, bell, etc) on or in your building in case pump or floats have a failure (you set the alarm float at about 75% of the heigth of the tank level so you have a little time to figure out a solution to non functioning). Use the high voltage floats because the low voltage ones are a lot of trouble. You can purchase a controller that you mount inside the building that you you can program to pump out at certain intervals by your needs. Locate the controller inside building and have a approved seal on the conduit coming from the tank so that the gases can't back up to the controller and a spark on the relay contact and cause an explosion. By so doing you do not have to use the explosion proof relays(2)that in 1997 cost $800.00 apiece and had a high failure rate.

H.D. Fowler is where I got all the good neat stuff to do this. You can strap the controller so that you can still use the high voltage floats with the controller which is designed for the low voltage floats. By keeping with the high voltage floats if the controller has a heart attack and dies you can't quickly wire the system to work with just the floats until you can see the controller doctor or buy a new one ($400 1997 price).

Good luck. Any questions just ask.

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Guru

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Sewage Pump for Residential Service

02/26/2009 11:51 AM

Greetings to all from Olympia Washington, have you seen my good friend Lenny Chan (Chan Too Lynn). He lived in Incline Village Nevada during the late 1980"s and early 1990's. Lenny likes to cook Chinese food Hong Cong style.

A subdivision near where I live here in Sunny/rainy season Florida is, in its entirety (about 100,000 building lots) 1/2 developed at this time, on a low pressure sewage waste removal system. I have constructed 29 homes in this SD. Everyone has the system installed just as I described in my previous post.

I have also constructed numerous homes that the owner determined that providing a mound of fill to cover a drain-field that is constructed on existing grade or higher is all that they can afford as filling the entire 1/4 or 1/2 acre property is simply too expensive.

The Environmental Health Dept. for the State of Florida uses standards establish by the Federal Govt. that describes the variety of soils that exist in this state and just where these different varieties exist. The Fed. also established perk-ability standards and in general just how far beneath the surface the natural water table is during the wettest time of the year. The FSEHD then establishes a questionable elevation that is called the "invert of the plumb out" at the location where the effluent will enter the septic tank. For those who do not understand what the invert of the plumb out really means, it is simply the elevation where by the inside bottom of the 4" pipe that carries the waste from your house will enter the septic tank. Plumbing (waste pipes) are installed with a fall rate of from 1/4" to 1'8" per 10 ft. length of pipe. What this means to the non builder/plumber is that the plumbing will be constructed accordingly and the underside of the floor of the home will be above this minimum fall rate for the waste pipe. The further the pipe will have to travel the higher will be the floor of your home, like it or not.

If you are constructing your home on a concrete slab, as many do here in Florida, Your home often is sitting on a very expensive mound of dirt. Your yard or at least most of it will filled with more dirt to cover the drain-field.

The other option for this is to have the septic tank installer use a tank that incorporates the use of what is locally called (pump/grinder) system that pumps the liquid effluent up into your above ground drain-field, or into a low pressure public waste system if available when the liquid level in the tank reaches a predetermined height. This will permit you to have your home constructed at a lower level saving thousands in fill material but now requires repair and replacement of parts and pumps over the life of the system. CLASS DISMISSED!

TooMuchFun

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Anonymous Poster
#15

Re: Sewage Pump for Residential Service

03/15/2009 4:54 PM

Your question baffles! To what purpose or benefit would your proposed "sewage pump" be installed within, or ancillary to, a septic tank? How would the pump relate (as you seem to suggest) to your forecasted tenant elimination rate...given that any septic tank is non-functional unless and until it is filled with liquid discarded or eliminated by its users?

Thanks.

Baffled one.

PS: If, instead, you intend to install a pump upstream of the tank inlet (and have not misdiagnosed sluggish toilet drainage as being caused [not be an exhausted leech field but) by a liquid-filled septic tank) then please accept my apology for the intrusion.

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Anonymous Poster
#16
In reply to #15

Re: Sewage Pump for Residential Service

03/15/2009 5:02 PM

PPS: Wherever (i.e., in what room) did you come up with that 200lts-per-person-per-4-or-5-days metric?

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Commentator

Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 77
#18
In reply to #16

Re: Sewage Pump for Residential Service

03/15/2009 10:59 PM

Thanks all for responding to my question.Sorry to say I could not get a satisfactory answer as my question is not addressed 100% .As different suppliers are giving differene specs. for the pumps unable to conclude.Pumps are offered are submersible pumps of cutter type.Some say SS pumps need to be installed and some say Cast Iron body with SS internals would work etc. which is really baffling.Actually as waste water from the bath rooms and toilets have to go to this underground sump from where after collection it is to be pumped to main line which is at higher elvation by around 15 to 16 ft.

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