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Phase to Phase Voltage

03/27/2009 5:28 AM

Dear all guru
i have a confusion kindly explain it.when i check by multimeter phase to phase voltage is 390 v but both phase to neutrel voltage is 230 v. what i think that phase to phase voltege should be more than 400 volt kindly explain

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#1

Re: voltage

03/27/2009 6:01 AM

Its easy. check up you meter and calibrate it.

digital or pointer?

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: voltage

03/27/2009 6:05 AM

meter is ok and digital and i have check by 3 or for meter reading is same

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#3

Re: voltage

03/27/2009 6:31 AM

Assuming you are on a 3 phase balanced line,

The phase to phase voltage

= 2Vl. Cos (120/2) , where Θ is the angle between the two phases (Just make a vector diagram and this is a common trigonometric calculation)

But this is assuming Vph1, Vph2 are equal and spaced by 120 degrees

So with 230 V you get line-line voltage 230√3 = 398.3 V

Howevr in real live neither you get exact 230 V in lines, nor they are equal and nor they are spaced exactly 120 deg so the value is approximately 398V (exact calculation again by trigonometry can be done if you know the phase angle and the two V values)

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: voltage

03/27/2009 6:36 AM

But then all your posts are in EE forum , you are supposed to know about phase unbalances ?

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#10
In reply to #3

Re: voltage

03/28/2009 11:44 AM

GA from me for a perfect answer, well illustrated too...

Some of the other answers here like "Calibrate or test your meter" are (GASP!) simply laughable!!!!

Hopefully they have read and understood your post now!!!

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: voltage

03/28/2009 12:16 PM

Thanks

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: voltage

03/28/2009 12:35 PM

Well to my mind it was basic 3 phase AC theory, but I was surprised how few of us understood it!!

What do some people gloss over in their education........

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: voltage

03/28/2009 1:59 PM

You will be surprised to know (i don't know at your area of course) how many of us study just to clear the credits with a good grade and don't understand the basics.

long back (when i was unmarried and also had free time, being in the more junior ranks) i had the unfortunate experience of giving some free tuition to the children of some colleagues appearing for engineering admission and were supposed to be relatively OK. And two questions were typical. And took hours each for them to grasp (and they end of the time didn't as could be found when they appeared in the exam)

q1- if a stone falls in well and you hear the sound of splash after x seconde what is the depth of well. Simple? not for them. Split the activity in two parts. Give the example of two trains moving towards each other (that they know since the question was solved in their book) and all other types of physical example. But no, they want the formulae.

q2- If you mix x Kgs of Ice at 0 deg with Y kg of Steam at 120 deg what will be the temperature of the mixture ? They know water+ ice, water + steam but ice + steam ? sorry . Again wanted the formulea. Exam was simpler, steam was at 100 deg and they failed to answer.

These incidents (and of course I have seen my class mates and also i see my colleagues) show the level of technology the Engineers have grasped and still got the degree.

What do some people gloss over in their education........

They never got theirs simply mugged up (the terminology used here) their text books and cleared the exam.

Just look at the Horsepower to Watts thread - and also an earlier one KWHr conversion to KW (and that too by a Doctor somebody )

Can you believe that people don't know the difference between power and Energy ? It does not need engg knowledge, these we have studied in basic physics of class 10 or earlier (don't remember now but definitely class 10 had these)

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: voltage

03/28/2009 3:24 PM

I can say that with my class members in the early 60's, we were examined extremely thoroughly........We helped each other to study and nothing was left to chance......there was also some rivalry as to who would do best, who would have the best average etc etc.....

Some of it got so printed on our brains......even now its still clear. <it is true that sometimes I need to look at a book to freshen it up a bit when needed......but really not so bad when one considers it was over 40 years ago and I have been in the computer business since 1973......Mostly I need the infos for CR4.......!!

I sincerely believe all that you wrote, sad but true. I even took off one of your 5 OT points that you gave yourself.......

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: voltage

03/29/2009 1:30 AM

Some similarity here.

Teaching your classfellows must be the key. because doing that what happens is that we, not for competition purpose, but were ourselves helped. When a person of same class asks why? that forces us to think and tp be one up , next chapter we are ready with the answers of most of the whys, some are asked and some aren't but then still we are ready. Must be that's what has happened (so you are approx 10-15 yrs senior - I am late 70s graduate)

And like you or worse- with electrical post graduate I am in a machine building (as pure mechanical as possible) just get a whiff of electrical in my other arm (maintenance ).

BTW: been to your place a couple of years back, on way to bocholt, have a tie up with our company with a company there. Nice place (dont know FF, Bocholt I mean) Didn't tour much of germany , it was a short trip.

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#17
In reply to #13

Re: voltage

03/29/2009 11:23 PM

sb

You gave two examples from subjects other than this thread.

Let me give example from the topic of this tread.

I get chance to interview new entrants for my company often.

One of the questions, I asked recently to many of the the fresh electrical engineering graduate students:

What are the three pins in the electrical connections in househodl connections (Pin Top ... male female)?

Many of them replied: it is for 3 phase! (instead of Line, Neutral, Earth)

Another example I remember in my colllage days:

At that time, one of the leading auto industry from India (Premier Automobiles), wanted to manufacture Diesel Engine for a car, using same dies they were using for their pethrol engine, by changing the materials. This project they entrusted with my collage. Being post graduate student at that time, collage selected me to work on the project.

I could suggest different materials for various components for higher pressure and forces of the diesel. But crank shaft analysis was real complex one, as in those days no computers and FEA was available.

Thus, I approached one of the professors from our collage (Ph D in Structural Engineering) and asked for help for the analysis.

After observing the crank shaft for tens of minutes, he came up with question" Why you make this crank shaft SO zigzag!!!!!

Should I ask "What gloss he did in his engineering education... ?"

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#18
In reply to #17

Re: voltage

03/29/2009 11:49 PM

Some times I feel we may just make an anecdote and publish some book. Almost alternate day I come across some cases from fresh college graduate as well as from senior levels on this aspect.

- Just a few days back in a machine on test bench, the testinp personnel forgot to open the valve to one of the bearing lines (spray lubricated). Bearing seized after sufficient warning.

The grat part is he waited for a few minutes (without bothering to investigate) - again seized.

Then they called us (I was in Quality then) we identified the problem within a minute and started the LOS.

This was great but there is greater.

We recommended the bearing to be replaced. WHich is obvious.

But the production I/C and the testing (of course since it had become their baby) informed that the bearing need not be replaced, and in operation it will self correct its damage - a la polishing action .

And then why to pre-heat before welding, why to control Pre heat temperature, electrode baking, etc are daily actions (you have to tell every body- and it is not workers mind you). And you have to tell what happens if you don't. Then they may try without doing and show- see i didn't and nothing happened. Vry difficult to convince that there is no apparant defect but it will be generated since the nuclii is created by not following the process.

In the approx thirty years of industry there may be enough material to write about what engineers are supposed to but don't know.

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#16
In reply to #10

Re: voltage

03/29/2009 11:12 PM

Wow, it seems a peasant becomes an electrican now... But still raw too much.

Only said a simple word after others ass.

Hehe, its this betryed someone knows only one shadow rather than another.

I seem to meet a scoundrel.

Want to challenge? well , lets open a new place !

I intend to teach you a little more what is capacitor, what is meter. what the important, is what is Man !

From China

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#19
In reply to #16

Re: voltage

03/30/2009 2:30 AM

Neednt mask, I declare again, I work for my country. the department is state owned, I served for my people since my graduated. So what ! I do things brightly and fairly.

I need to teach you more about what is meter, what is linear, what is tolerance. These may be alway a new word to you in your worst work life! he he, what you can do or have to do is only go to your basement to get some garbages.

Friends in this chat room comment you just act as a mouse runs in a dark place. but pretent to be a smart...

Any wrong I posted on the top? Only a countryman will laughed at . because he has no basic electric skill.

Do you know what is 3Phase power? what is electric angle? youi like to show off, go on... Im waiting for ...

Do you see Sb said that the first thread si wrong?

I come here looking for friendship not for fighting. but if someone like you wish to do that, I like to accompany with.

Do you like to open a new place or still stay here for more...?

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#21
In reply to #19

Re: voltage

03/30/2009 3:00 AM

I am quite sure that even if you have never been correct on any post in CR4 up to now, your last comment is completely true:-

Do you like to open a new place or still stay here for more...?

That demonstrates that you still have plenty of - bad English, bad spelling, bad manners and very large quantities of good old BS!!

Its really only knowledge of various sciences which you have very little of, it would appear......

I am sure that with a few simple words from me each time I wish, mostly not even directed at you, I can get you to stay "huffing and puffing" for months if not for years further......its not exactly difficult I find!!

In Germany, we would say - Volkssport!! Its far easier than catching fish!!!

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#25
In reply to #21

Re: voltage

03/30/2009 5:58 AM

You are forever talking about language, as if there is only you alone here who could speak this language. hehe, why do you fail to metion this topic? Do you know what the topic is?

Im curious what knowledge of science you know best? show off.

Its pity, what I have read threads from you are all worst. you can say nothing but some simple words beyond topics.

Why not answer my question? Can you?

wow, I forget, you can also speak Gernany, how do you say "stupid of science" in Germany?

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#20
In reply to #16

Re: voltage

03/30/2009 2:48 AM

Firstly, I did not answer you post directly, I posted independently of anyone else.

Therefore if you feel that you were involved in the "amateur" answers, then you have simply proved the validity of another English proverb:- That is " If the cap fits, wear it!"

What rubbish you talk about various subjects, with such bad English spelling (use the spell checker, its free!) combined with such little knowledge of English grammar (sadly there is no grammar checker online at CR4).....

You would have appeared more intelligent if you had simply ignored my post completely...as though it had nothing to do with you (you were not alone, but are the only one who reacted!!)....cleverness can also sometimes be demonstrated in a silent (wordless) manner.....

Also, if you understood fully just how stupid your posts always appear (yes, always!), showing such little "REAL" knowledge of the science of Electricity (sadly you appear usually NOT to have understood either the question or the correct answer!!) as in this case, plus your exceedingly bad manners, you would never post again under your present CR4 name......

Basically, if BS were brains, you would be the most intelligent here......obviously BS is not brains.... I must say thanks for clearing up at least that question for all of us here.....

May I suggest that you try to "turn over a new leaf" and become a useful member here? There must be something you know that could be useful one day on CR4, its just probable that the subject matter has never ever come up up to now!!!

Start reading/learning on CR4, and at the same time go back to school and learn properly any subject you feel the need to post on and then we can simply ignore your bad English as your subject material would then demonstrate worth in its own right..... Did you understand all of that fully?Anything that I need to explain further?

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#22
In reply to #20

Re: voltage

03/30/2009 5:06 AM

Im afraid you dare not reply for your less skill of electric. How could you? a soldier float on the sea for years.

What you can say is only English. hehe, it would be curious who could not speak English for a baby born in England. Is it strange for a man to speak english in Europe? Only several hours drive distance to Britain. hehe I know even an English illiteracy can speak a fluent English. you might be one of them.

Its pity this chat room is not talking about language, but tech. If I would have lived in USA or Britain or somewhere spoke such language, would it have been difficult to learn ? Its not strange for European to speak 3 or 4 languages. even a child know this. if you would like to show off your language, why not go to language forum?

Do you know what is correct answer? are you capable to answer? hehe, you cannt.

How could you? a countryman skill.

Im never alone, I declared before, is it curious?

btw, who stand aside with you? only you along? poor.

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#24
In reply to #22

Re: voltage

03/30/2009 5:56 AM

Dear Cnpower

Let us not get personal and not call each other names.

As you have rightly mantioned, we are here for technical talks and not language. I agree with you.

Earlier also i have suggested (not to you, to another friend) that if we have an objection, let us argue technically and not on personal basis. It does not augur well for the environment of the forum.

And of course the OP has already confirmed about the status of meters in #3.

As far as the other part of language is concerned, we have seen a lot worse language (including mine possibly - and I don't mind it since english is not my mother tongue, and of course spelling mistakes are always cover-upable by the spell check but am too lazy to click that button - as can be confirmed by Not so Smart and Mobi and a few others <tears> who look at my spelling (more tears)

BTW - I was in france (even nearer to Britain than germany) and had a lot of problem - no English and that too in an American Company. Recently a post is on for an Hungarian Guy who wants to learn magyar. Epke may confirm that the Dutch language (is it that ? ) different. And they are quite different. I learnt a bit of french but could not make out any thing of german while I was there. Any way we are not here to check our linguistic skills.

Let us not fight things out here.

And in case the OP still has some problem and it seems he has check his other posts let us help him out. His PCBs are going poof.

Does he have surge protector ?

Neutral to earth voltage of 1V or so seems OK

Another thing may be going wrong may be local shieldings ? somewhere the databus and interfering with each other ? let us observe that thread and see what he finds.

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#27
In reply to #24

Re: voltage

03/30/2009 6:08 AM

My ignorance:

What is this BTW and OP?

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#29
In reply to #27

Re: voltage

03/30/2009 6:56 AM

By the way (scowl)

Original Poster (more scowl)

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#36
In reply to #29

Re: voltage

03/30/2009 10:49 PM

????????

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#37
In reply to #36

Re: voltage

03/30/2009 11:49 PM

BTW- By the way

OP = Original Posters

<Emotives are as per the previous post>

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#38
In reply to #37

Re: voltage

03/30/2009 11:58 PM

Thanks

BTW I appreciate your emotions

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#39
In reply to #38

Re: voltage

03/31/2009 5:16 AM
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#28
In reply to #22

Re: voltage

03/30/2009 6:20 AM

Using English as a weapon requires more than a very basic understanding of it.

If I may say without (much) malice "yours is blunt!"

(HeHeHe!! - ancient Chinese quote! Probably very funny there.......)

Using English in this way is something I feel is totally beyond you understanding!! As it seems is simple basic theory and practise Electricity and electronics!!

But please continue in your dumm ignorant manner, at least it keeps large numbers of us amused....

Also it would appear someone has/needs to be the court jester!! Therefore it seems you have elected yourself.......no contest! You have the job......I really don't want it.

The pay is awfull by the way.........

(HeHeHe!! - ancient Chinese quote! Probably very funny there.......)

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#31
In reply to #28

Re: voltage

03/30/2009 7:43 AM

It seems you really come from German, I also know this words" foreign language is a weapon in life struggle" Who spoke this? he was nother than Karl Marx. You might be also a socialist before cool war? Ha ha ha ha. ( cihnese laugh sound)

" yours is bunt" this words was often heard in movies by us. Especially Japanese like to say this words in China in II world war. even a child can understan.

No matter how you are sophistic, you dont dare to answer my question!

Look at your answer, who will not believe you are a troublemaker?

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#32
In reply to #28

Re: voltage

03/30/2009 7:56 AM

No contest to get a job? awesome. I think you might be one of them.

What ability do you have? Dont know electric, dont know how to use meter, Only see TV , If you were not lived in German, Im afraid you might only be a vendor along the street with your small stall. or work in the field as a peasant. you might also go to woods as a robber. aweful. terrible.

You waste your german;s money.You lost your german's face.

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#23
In reply to #20

Re: voltage

03/30/2009 5:39 AM

Andy

I see both of you are right on some points:

I accept that CNPOWER should not have taken up your comment on him only. Your comment was applicable to many others. Unnecessarily he opened up the debut. As you said rightly his silence would have been a better thing.

But on the other hand please do not blame him for his poor english. We all know Chinese are not good in english. They are still in learning phase. They will take much more time to learn good english. We need to understand what Chinese wants to say in their bad english.

On the other hand, please remember that CN power has 13 GAs to his creit, which shows, he also has some engineering skills.

We (hope other CR4 members are with me) wish to see good dilog between you two.

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#26
In reply to #23

Re: voltage

03/30/2009 6:02 AM

So we are both mediators

Let us hope that both keep their good judgment and can not say the word ... and make up.

let us hope that we have more technical arguments and counter arguments from our members.

BTW: don't think you were first . I checked up your timing and since my post was long and there was some interruptions and editings, it took more time for me to post.

Else I have some watchers looking for my spelling and counting if more than 3 then I get a OT point.

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#30
In reply to #23

Re: voltage

03/30/2009 7:21 AM

Blame? He should be shame for his thread beyond the topic. What can he do? He can do nothing only but speak a few language.and laugh at others include you and your india friends, if I would havnt forgotten.

He should have a good seeing, who is standing along him in Europe? even in his country. He thought of what he is being.

tens ga? Do you believe this sum? If those who come here for help would all be ladys and gentalmen, and have a grateful manner without lazy hand, over hundreds at the least. if you would be an electric or elecgtronic engieer, you would have known all. hehe.

Do you take it seriously? funny, I think its only fun , a game. dont take it serious.

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#34
In reply to #23

Re: voltage

03/30/2009 8:41 AM

Well said gsuhas.

And as moderator here, to Andy and CNPower - Cool it!

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#35
In reply to #34

Re: voltage

03/30/2009 10:48 PM

Thanks Chris

Yet I am not sure, if CNPOWER has understood me correctly or not! I can understand, if he has not understood me properly, because chinese are not so good in english.

I feel good that you are also observing, whats going on.

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#40
In reply to #3

Re: voltage

05/04/2009 2:32 AM

Dear sir

i want to ask one thing how can we incresses this line to line voltage

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#5

Re: voltage

03/27/2009 6:41 AM

Dineshpandit80

Try using an anolog meter,also check if your meter has an auto range or you just set the range manually if so then you should select the right level.If the readings you get are not stable but flauctuating then consider changing the battery for your meter.

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#6

Re: Phase to Phase Voltage

03/27/2009 9:24 AM

You are getting very good voltage.I think this voltage you have verifed at output of UPS.But Incoming Raw supply may be 415 Volts + or - 5% is accetable .

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lavurk

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: Phase to Phase Voltage

03/28/2009 1:08 AM

no dear i check on row supply

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#7

Re: Phase to Phase Voltage

03/27/2009 11:13 PM

This proves than even PANDIT needs GURU

(Forgive me all foreigners... this will be understood mainly by indians)

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#9

Re: Phase to Phase Voltage

03/28/2009 7:08 AM

Check R-N,Y-N and B-N.You will notice that a particular phase to neutral is lower than 230v,hence checking phase to phase will be less than 400v.The cause of drop in voltage is due to overloading of that particular phase which gave you less than 230v.

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#33

Re: Phase to Phase Voltage

03/30/2009 8:37 AM

This runs as one of the funniest blogs we have had for a long time.........many thanks to cnpower for making it so......

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