Pipe Expansion Loops and Anchors

1. Replaced material is copper. Does it have a higher expansion rate compared to the steel pipe?
2. What is the temperature range? With the temperature range vailable, u can know the amount of expansion and contraction it will go through. This in turn can be converted to force that the pipe will go through. With expansion loop, the forces will be reduced to within allowable range.
3. Victaulic joint is not to be considered as same as welding joint or flange joint.

In conclusion, too many parameters changed and changes are not favouring for ommission of expansion loop in my humble oppinion. But if u still want to ommit expansion loop, would suggest, expansion joint instead. If more details can be e-mailed to me (sam68john@yahoo.com), might be able to help.

Be careful with mechanical joint pipe such as Victaulic, since the joints are flexible. Bracing at key locations is important. Depanding on total expansion of pipe, it might theoritically possible to put the system in without expansion joints due to loose fit at joints. However this does take close attention to detail durring construction, and with Cu thermal expansion I doubt it could be done. I had an old time Merchant mariner as a Chief Engineer early in my career who beat into me that loops were superior to joints. Whatever system you use, have adequate guides and anchors, and locate them correctly to guide and control movement in the direction you want it. The devil is in the details, how well you design and follow them will lead to success or failure!

many factors may effect the movement of the pipe, temp variance,length,bends and bend distances,bracket centres,and what conection to equipment?pressure.?

rubber expansin bellows or stainless bellows alternativley any flexible joint,with floating brackets,or pipe not fixed to brackets just located, will allow pipe to absorb forces.

Loops are wonderful things. We've had much better luck with them than expansion joints. Whether you need either, I'll leave to others, but I will say that it doesn't take much to require one and they're not that difficult to incorporate.

At 180 Deg F, the thermal expansion of copper is approximately 45% more than steel. I would calculate the change in length from installation temperature to hot and cold limits and see how much the Victaulic couplings will absorb. If the couplings won't absorb it all. then you'll need some flexibility built in, either a loop, a zee, some other bends, or an expansion joint. I suspect the angle brackets are anchors or guides. If the couplings will absorb the growth, keep in mind to let the pipe float on its supports and to support within the recommended distance from each coupling, usually 2 to 5 feet. Hope this helps.

Thanks for the info. The loop will stay in. I was concerned that the existing loop went through a fire wall and was grouted in such a way there was no movement possible. After getting above the pipes, conduit, and duct I have found so many openings in the wall there is no more fire wall so I will put the loop in and check on the anchors and such. It is so hard to get a good sweat joint on 6" pipe, in confined spaces, is why I went with victolic.

As a former pipefitter/steamfitter for 20 year that went back to school, I can strongly recomend that you keep the expansion loops but also would add the suggestion that you invite a fitter/plumber in to look and recomend how to assemble the joint in the field. I can remember many situations that looked impossible to others and yet by using a little thinking out of the box were made rather easy in the end. Sometimes if we communicated a little more with the craftsman that actually has to "make it work" at the beginning, it would make for a much smoother and easier job.

I have a lot of experence with large pipelines (20 - 50 inch) and can tell you the rate of expansion will be quite a lot. Listen close in your own home when turning on the hot water in a cold bathroom in the morning (if you have wood frame and copper pipes). That thumping noise you hear in the wall is your copper pipe rapidly expanding from a 50-70*F temp differential and 'popping' through the copper clamps that are pinching the pipe against the wood frame. It is moving and it is only 1-2 meters in length. Flexible joints are not allowed in my "oil field" world as they leak. Consider what you have in the pipe and what a leak will do and the risks of a leak. I would use thick copper pipe with soldered joints and expansion loops. A quick look by a process piping consultant may be in order.

One of the reasons for the bracing may have been first of all, era building code, and two, perhaps to disapate static build-up secondary to whatever the pipe originally carried. If there are no apparant physical offerings of the bracing being for structural reasons, static disapation is the only thing that comes to mind. I seen this in a federal health building that I worked in, but some of those pipes were of various diameters, and carried rare or exotic gasses, steam and water, including waste materials as well. As for the expansion loops, what are the chances these are for condensation traps that are self-eliminating, in that once a certain temperature is reached, the condensation would evaporate back into a gas state. Food for thought. Good luck Mint Condition