Previous in Forum: Mechanical Flying Shear   Next in Forum: progressive cavity pump
Close
Close
Close
16 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Commentator

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 55

Nozzle Repairs and ASME Standards

04/13/2009 12:27 AM

Dear Members,

Good day all, could I ask one question?. I have done a nozzle opening on complete vessel. After discussed with my client, nozzle to be relocate. Could I patch that hole using plate or need to cut and replace with new plate?. Any part in ASME allow to patch a hole?.

Could anyone advice us regarding this matter?.

Kindly, you all prompt respond are appreciated.

Thank you.

Best regards,

Faizol

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
2
Power-User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 295
Good Answers: 51
#1

Re: Improper Nozzle opening.

04/13/2009 1:10 AM

Without knowing anything about the vessel/nozzle - how about just leaving it as is with a blind flange, for perhaps an additional access/drain point, nozzle for running lights/extension cords/vacuum hoses, ..............?

(although not "ideal' or "best practices") ASME PCC-2 provides details on flush plate inserts.

Of course this needs to approved by your client and authorized inspector. And depending on if the vessel has been hydroed and stamped, and on your jurisdictional requirements, this procedure may fall under the National Board.

__________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Power-User

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Midwest United States, Evansville, Indiana 37 N, 87 W
Posts: 104
#3
In reply to #1

Re: Improper Nozzle opening.

04/14/2009 12:11 AM

I agree. Leaving it with a blind flange would be more practical and less likely to increase cost or cause further problems, providing that you obtain the proper consent.

Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 8
#2

Re: Nozzle Repairs and ASME Standards

04/13/2009 11:52 PM

I presume the vessel is brand new (still under construction). Nothing in ASME VIII about patches because patching is an in-service repair method (see NBIC Code, API 510 etc.), not for new construction. So your best bet is to replace the whole plate containing the opening cut in the wrong place.

Obviously the design will need to be amended to reflect new nozzle, compensation etc, and the drawings will need to be changed accordingly.

Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member Egypt - Member - Member since 02/18/2007

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Cairo, Egypt
Posts: 1733
Good Answers: 248
#6
In reply to #2

Re: Nozzle Repairs and ASME Standards

04/14/2009 3:06 AM

So your best bet is to replace the whole plate containing the opening cut in the wrong place.

Instead of the vessel is new one under construction, no need -as per ASME code- to replace the whole plate when you need to proceed such a modification.

__________________
It is better to be defeated on principles, than to win on lies!
Register to Reply
3
Guru
Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member Egypt - Member - Member since 02/18/2007

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Cairo, Egypt
Posts: 1733
Good Answers: 248
#4

Re: Nozzle Repairs and ASME Standards

04/14/2009 2:46 AM

Dear Faizol, the following are my replies for your questions through our private e-mails:

• You have two options,

1st Option. You can cut the nozzle and close the opening by using patch from the same vessel plate and apply the same WPS's & PQR's

2nd Option. You can let the nozzle as it is (and make a new nozzle in other place). The disadvantage of that option is the collection of liquids inside that dead portion where no fluid flow which may cause corrosion in long run. In that case I prefer if you close that nozzle from the inside of the vessel by a patch to prevent liquid going inside.

• The patching is an engineering practice, in addition it is included in NPIC NB-23, Part 3 " Repairs & Alterations". In any pressure system (piping or pressure vessel), I prefer to use a butt welded patch, and I don't prefer to use fillet weld to avoid proceeding any design calculations.

• The National Board Inspection Code, NBIC NB-23, consists of 3 Parts (727 pages):

Part 1 Installations (143 pages), Part 2 Inspection (317 pages), & Part 3 Repairs and Alterations (267 pages).

• If any modifications during period of fabrication are required and had been carried out before preparing, signing and approving the MDR, Manufacturer's Data Report by the ASME-authorized 3rd party (for Forms of MDR, see ASME VIII, Div. 1: Nonmandatory Appendix W guide for preparing Manufacturer's Data Reports), and before stamping of U-stamp on vessel nameplate, in this case the modifications are not considered a Repair, just the modifications can be referred in the drawings with an issue no. and date of issue, and to be signed by the designer (or can be included in the "As-Built" issue of drawing.

And I'd like you to know that if there is any repair required after completion of vessel certification with U-stamp, in this case the vessel shall have the R-stamp, and that R-stamp doesn't violate the U-stamp.

__________________
It is better to be defeated on principles, than to win on lies!
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
Commentator

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 55
#5
In reply to #4

Re: Nozzle Repairs and ASME Standards

04/14/2009 3:00 AM

Dear Sir,

Thank you very much Sir, i voted for best answer.

Best regards,

Faizol

Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 8
#7
In reply to #4

Re: Nozzle Repairs and ASME Standards

04/14/2009 6:00 AM

Obviously many ways to solve this problem. I agree with the comments regarding "dead-leg" being created by simply blinding the existing nozzle. Particularly if the vessel is to operate in highly corrosive environment e.g. sour service.

Just a minor clarificaton. It's not the VESSEL itself which has the R stamp but the ORGANIZATION authorized to carry out pressure vessel repairs.

Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member Egypt - Member - Member since 02/18/2007

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Cairo, Egypt
Posts: 1733
Good Answers: 248
#8
In reply to #7

Re: Nozzle Repairs and ASME Standards

04/14/2009 6:57 AM

It's not the VESSEL itself which has the R stamp but the ORGANIZATION authorized to carry out pressure vessel repairs.

When the vessel is required to be certified as per U-stamp, there must be a manufacturer who hold a valid certificate of authorization U-stamp, and there must be a nameplate assembled to the vessel itself which containing the symbol U prepared by the manufacturer as detailed in ASME VIII, Div.1.

Also, when such a repair is required for a vessel which certified a U-stamp, there must be an organization hold a valid certificate of authorization R-stamp and must be certified through a nameplate assembled to the vessel itself which containing the symbol R prepared by the manufacturer as detailed in NPIC, NB-23.

__________________
It is better to be defeated on principles, than to win on lies!
Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 8
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Nozzle Repairs and ASME Standards

04/14/2009 8:53 AM

Yes, but only if NB-23 and the certifications / stamps it stipulates are recognized by the local jurisdiction. Very few jurisdictions outside USA / Canada recognize or mandate NB-23; where NB-23 is not mandatory, the repair organizations are not required to hold R-stamp certification.

Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member Egypt - Member - Member since 02/18/2007

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Cairo, Egypt
Posts: 1733
Good Answers: 248
#10
In reply to #9

Re: Nozzle Repairs and ASME Standards

04/15/2009 2:25 AM

Here, I speak about/from the code point of view, not for any stipulation or any local jurisdictions.

R-stamping must be carried out by an organization holding R-stamp, and only required for those pressure vessels certified with U-stamp. That is means that if you have a pressure vessel not certified a U-stamp, in this case the repair work can be proceeded by any organization and not mandatory to hold R-stamp, and inturn no issuing for any R-stamp for that vessel.

In other words, if you have an organization not holding R-stamp, in this case they can proceed such a repair without certification (for the organization itself nor for the vessel), but in case that the repaired vessel was U-stamped, the repair work (without certification) shall violate the U-stamp of the vessel.

__________________
It is better to be defeated on principles, than to win on lies!
Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 8
#11
In reply to #10

Re: Nozzle Repairs and ASME Standards

04/17/2009 5:11 AM

Dear Abdel, thank you for you in-depth comments. Would you be able to direct me to the specific Code (ASME, NBIC, API etc.) paragraph which talks about "violation" of the U-stamp?

Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member Egypt - Member - Member since 02/18/2007

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Cairo, Egypt
Posts: 1733
Good Answers: 248
#12
In reply to #11

Re: Nozzle Repairs and ASME Standards

04/17/2009 8:50 AM

Without explicit express by the code, the violation to the U-stamp of a vessel shall be occurred if the repair/alteration/rerating carried out by an organization not holding certificate of authorization R-stamp. The manufacturer himself and who hold only the certificate of authorization U-stamp, is not authorized to proceed any repair work nor issuing any certification for that repaired work unless he hold a valid R-stamp certificate of authorization.

The following wording written into any specification will provide for an ASME Code vessel. "A manufacturer's data report for pressure vessels, Form U-1 (for example) as required for the ASME Code rules, is to be furnished to the owner. This form must be signed by a qualified inspector, holding a National Board Commission, certifying that construction conforms to the latest ASME Code Section VIII, Div. 1 for pressure vessels. The ASME symbol "U" must also be stamped on the Nameplate of the vessel".

In addition, it should be stated "The Manufacturer must be registered with the National Board." So, for any repair/alteration/rerating for a code item, there must be an authorized repaired organization registered with the National Board to be authorized to issue and fill all the forms as per the code. Otherwise the jurisdiction shall not accept the work and a violation to the stamp will occurs .

__________________
It is better to be defeated on principles, than to win on lies!
Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 8
#13
In reply to #12

Re: Nozzle Repairs and ASME Standards

04/17/2009 10:48 PM

Again I would like to point out that you are considering only one scenario, where the stipulations of NBIC Code (e.g R-stamp) apply. I would like to refer you to API 510 "Pressure Vesel Inspection Code: Maintenance Inspection, Rating, Repair and Alteration". In particular items 3.16 and 4.5 "repair organization" and Section 7 "Repairs, Alterations and Rerating of Presure Vesels".

Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member Egypt - Member - Member since 02/18/2007

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Cairo, Egypt
Posts: 1733
Good Answers: 248
#14
In reply to #13

Re: Nozzle Repairs and ASME Standards

04/18/2009 1:41 PM

For the tenth time, I speak about the code item (vessel/component), i.e. those vessels/components which are certified by a certificate of authorization U-stamp, where any repair for that code item (vessels/components) shall be certified by R-stamp holder and there will be a nameplate stamped with symbol stamp "R".

That is clear in API 510, Para. 3.16.a (The holder of a valid ASME Certificate of Authorization that authorizes the use of an appropriate ASME Code symbol stamp).

Otherwise, any repair work for a non-code item (vessel/component) can be carried out by any proper procedure or standard to be carried out by any experienced repairing organization where it is not mandatory to hold a certificate of authorization.

Note. I promise that my subsequent post #1000 will be under another thread title other than "Nozzle Repairs and ASME Standards".

__________________
It is better to be defeated on principles, than to win on lies!
Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#15
In reply to #14

Re: Nozzle Repairs and ASME Standards

08/18/2009 2:44 AM

The complete paragraph is as follows:

3.54 repair organization: Any one of the following who makes repairs in accordance with the inspection code:
a. The holder of a valid ASME Certificate of Authorization that authorizes the use of an appropriate ASME Code symbol stamp
(e.g. U-stamp).
b. The holder of a valid R-stamp issued by the National Board.
c. An owner or user of pressure vessels who repairs his or her own equipment.

d. A contractor whose qualifications are acceptable to the pressure-vessel owner or user.

e. An individual or organization that is authorized by the legal jurisdiction.

... so a contractor whose qualifications are acceptable to the PV owner / user is suitable for repairs alterations of a PV.

Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 39
#16
In reply to #15

Re: Nozzle Repairs and ASME Standards

04/14/2012 1:24 AM

you can go to http://www.standardshop.org
there sale a lot of asme aws api standard and so one .can immediately download,and very cheap low price!

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 16 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Abdel Halim Galala (6); Anonymous Poster (1); FAIZOL82 (1); Heart Cooks Brain (1); jackchen (1); Surfinglife (5); XMech (1)

Previous in Forum: Mechanical Flying Shear   Next in Forum: progressive cavity pump

Advertisement