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Floating Deck

05/22/2009 5:09 PM

Does anyone have any experience with Dek-Block Piers? I would like to build a "floating deck" so that my table and grill is not on the grass. I was thinking that I could just build a "box" with some supports inside. When I googled "floating decks" the dek-block system came up. If all you want to do is keep stuff out of the dirt do you really need all that much support.

I am a do-it-yourselfer but not a CE or ME - just a ChemE - also a female building it on her own. I have rebuilt a deck that was attached to a house before. Basically replacing all the floor boards and shoring up the supports.

I am trying to do this for as little as possible - just to get thru 1 or 2 summers.

Location: North Shore, Mass

Thanks for any advice

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#1

Re: Floating Deck

05/22/2009 9:52 PM

Floating deck? Wha, you want to float it on your back yard, or on the water? If on your yard, just put some 4X4s on the lawn, level, plumb, and square. Deck it. On the water, start with posts at the waterline, hinge or double hinge your dock to accomodate the tides.

Been there, done that, and know all the hardware you will need for any specific application. c.pickhardt@yahoo.com

Have a great day! and don't forget what this weekend is all about.

Carl

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#2

Re: Floating Deck

05/23/2009 9:47 AM

What's wrong with the "deck block" concept without the deck blocks. Just build the deck as shown, without the vertical risers and the beck blocks and let it sit directly on the ground. Use redwood or treated wood for ground contact. I'd build the frame first, then set it in place, get it level and secure, then screw the deck in place.

Good luck.

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#3

Re: Floating Deck

05/23/2009 12:28 PM
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#4

Re: Floating Deck

05/23/2009 10:10 PM

Go to your local Lumber Co. and get "How to Build a Deck" off the DIY rack. Some fastener companies show how and where to use thier product in a pamphlet. The guy behind the counter may, or may not have some advise. Good luck

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#5

Re: Floating Deck

05/23/2009 11:43 PM

You first said "floating" I thought you really meant floating. I've built a deck for water... but when I searched "Dek-Block Piers" they look like modified pier blocks.. with grooves. I've built many-a-deck and I like in-ground, poured footings with wet anchors. Then I change the post height to accommodate different grades. If you've got a level spot the "Dek-Block Piers" look like they'll work fine, although not any better than normal pier block from what I can see.

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#6

Re: Floating Deck

05/24/2009 12:50 AM

I recall a story about a floating deck made after the conquest of Russia by Genghis Khan's Army. It was supported by the conquered princes who suffocated while the conquerors partied on the deck.

Dek-blok is cool because they support what you put on them during assembly and prevent shifting when it is done. Oh, and no moaning of suffering princes.

I see good recomendations in this thread so I just say the Book, Google and Home Depot are good places to start.

I like to see it done right and would hire a professional and work for him as a day laborer. Or just watch.

Jon

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#7

Re: Floating Deck

05/24/2009 2:00 AM

Mix concrete, pre-mixed is good. Mix it just wet enough to activate the cement. shovel or pour into 12" sauna tubes. Set 4x4 wet post anchors into the wet cement. Sauna tubes—thick paper tubes—ask for them at the building center. They are available in 4' lengths, you'll want 12" dia x 12" long. Place them in a manner to support the deck joists and the outer sill plate.

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#12
In reply to #7

Re: Floating Deck

05/24/2009 11:32 AM

FYI, they are sonotubes, not sauna tubes.

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#15
In reply to #12

Re: Floating Deck

05/24/2009 8:14 PM

FYI six one way half dozen the other they are sold under either and both what's your point

Let's call'em piers then

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#16
In reply to #12

Re: Floating Deck

05/25/2009 3:07 AM

Concrete column forms would be the correct name for it. Ask for that.

Sonoco Products Company makes Sonotube forms. Sonotube is a registered trade mark for the tubular cement forms

Sona tubes and Sauna tubes seem to be a phonetic misnomer for their product. Sounds close enough for Home Depot employees.

Quik-Tube is another company that makes the paper forms.

If I handed someone a box wrench or socket wrench and called them Crescent Wrenchs he would probably look at me like I am nuts. Crescent tools make adjustable spanners, box wrenches, screwdrivers and socket wrench sets. If he wants an adjustable spanner and calls it a Crescent Wrench my assortment of adjustable spanners may not be made by Crescent Tool Company and I may say I dont have a Crescent Wrench or hand him a Crescent tool that is nothing like he was thinking. I could offer to trade one for a diesel spark plug ot a muffler bearing.

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#20
In reply to #16

Re: Floating Deck

05/25/2009 10:28 AM

Well alrighty then sonotubes it is—I stand corrected

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#14
In reply to #7

Re: Floating Deck

05/24/2009 4:00 PM

Concrete, the start of a great thought! A couple houses back, the contractor said deck was $10/sf and concrete patio was $3/sf. I did both, and split the gel in my eye getting wacked with a deck stain sprayer wand extension under the deck, which maintenance was still inadequate, and then there are the critters that move in. Skip the deck, and do a concrete or paver patio.

Likewise, skip the awnings and umbrellas for that part of the patio, and put a roof extension over it, to avoid skin cancer.

We have a fully enclosed 3 season room of concrete patio with berber over it now, dual-glazed sliding and fixed glass with screens under a roof extension, plus an ample paver patio for the grill, plants, smokers (people or BBQ :-) and hose reel.

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#8

Re: Floating Deck

05/24/2009 3:48 AM

Hello ProcessEngr,

Welcome and it is nice to have a lady on the 'ranks'. I am not being sexist as you mentioned it first right?

Anyhow, with regard to the deck, if you just want to raise it off the grass to cut under it or you just want a nice clean surface to walk on, either way, if it is going to down for just a couple of years there is no need to get specially treated timber to prevent rot etc. Just make sure the ground is level and hard at all contact points. You can have it next to the house or butting up to the house it is up to you.

Use large enough timber so it does not bend, I suggest supports every 2' (60 cm).

Good luck and I hope you stay around.

Take care. Any chance of a pic of the finished job? Just wondered...........

bb

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#11
In reply to #8

Re: Floating Deck

05/24/2009 10:35 AM

Hey bb,

Supports every 2' means the deck is either under built or carry heavy equipment

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#9

Re: Floating Deck

05/24/2009 8:13 AM

Obviously most people don't have a significant white ant problem.

I left some soft wood in contact with the ground and 3 weeks later it was a shell!

If your ground is fairly level, use concrete block level the edge, then fill with dirt.

Pavers on top of the dirt will give you a good surface that will adjust itself as ground settles and moves and can be easily readjusted if it gets too far out of level.

1 or 2 % cement in the dirt you use as fill strengthens the foundation enormously and reduces settlement. At that level it is cheap and the fill can still adjust a little if needed.

Of course, if your ground isn't level enough to use fill, a suspended deck is needed.

In that case there are standard drawings available on the net for the requisite supports and frame needed to make such a deck.

Good luck with your project.

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#10

Re: Floating Deck

05/24/2009 10:33 AM

At one time long ago built these floating aka portable decks and or lawn sheds because without a footed base they were deemed non-taxable.

I do still use some of the construction methods and they are quite adaptable for various sized units allowing quick erection of a sturdy platform.

Are ya still there ProcessEngr ?

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#13

Re: Floating Deck

05/24/2009 1:20 PM

I have built many a deck with these blocks, I'm not sure you need them if you only want a 1 or 2 year use of your deck as you state. You can use them in different ways , so it really depends on the size and shape of the deck being built. Because the way you suggested you wanted to build it I don't think a building permit is required but you should maybe check. Let us know the size and shape and the height off the ground. Everything you do plays a part on how you build your deck, not only economically but safely....Charlie Cobb

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#17

Re: Floating Deck

05/25/2009 9:42 AM

Looks like we've been used and tossed aside.

Not even a thank you.

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#18
In reply to #17

Re: Floating Deck

05/25/2009 10:12 AM

Hi lynlynch,

Mmmmmmm, a 'progress engineer who has not checked the progress? LOL

Of course she may just be working? And or away for the holidays? A little slack around this time where it is holidays etc has to be allowed. It would be interesting what the OP has to say when and if she does return. I think she will return, otherwise the OP would have not joined?

bb

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: Floating Deck

05/25/2009 10:15 AM

Maybe she's at Home Depot now. Maybe she's out back putting the finishing touches on her dock before she sends photos of the completed project.

There, is that better?

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#21
In reply to #19

Re: Floating Deck

05/25/2009 10:37 AM

Hi lynlynch,

Yeah that sounds better!!!!!.................Of course you could have been right in the first place! Hardly makes sense to ask a question then ignore the answers?

bb

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#22

Re: Floating Deck

05/25/2009 10:37 AM

There are engineer designed span tables for various timber grades. I am in Australia and i doubt whether our span tables would relate to you, so i won't suggest any sizes of bearers, joists etc and their spans. However our standards call for a 'footprint' of 1 foot by 1 foot. The Dek_Block appears inadequate if you were to build your deck to the maximum floor load width ( f.l.w. ) per stump. I would be very surprised if the U.S. of A didn't have similar standards/span tables as we do here in Oz. Your local council may have some that they could copy for you.

P.S. I don't know if you call your local gov't a council. Forgive my ignorance.

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#23
In reply to #22

Re: Floating Deck

05/25/2009 12:12 PM

Usually the Municipal Building Inspector is happy to provide standards, which is often a patchwork of national code modified at the state, county and municipal level. However, often one DIY agenda item is to indefinitely delay any government notice = tax adjustment.

I suppose you can support it with any number of piers and house attachment, but the load must, as you note, not overwhelm the capacity of any span or any foundation. While for building a house, they make you go down to 'undisturbed earth' (well, not disturbed recently) or rock, but for decks with many piers, a more modest 'footing' may be legal.

If a deck is not attached to a building and sits on top of the ground on legs, it can be defended as being lawn furniture and not taxable. I think this builder wants a concrete foot pad to spread the load and to discourage insects and rot, but not qualify as a foundation or prevent frequent relocation. How many guys it takes to move the deck is anyone's guess! It might be a modular design that comes apart! Maybe the foundation should be many solid rubber tire casters. To keep the grass alive, it has to move periodically, unless you put "grow lights" under the floor! :-)

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#24
In reply to #23

Re: Floating Deck

05/25/2009 12:25 PM

Recommend remove turf to a depth of about 6-8" then fill with mixed pea and #1 stone, compacted.

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#25
In reply to #24

Re: Floating Deck

05/25/2009 1:12 PM

With all that aggregate just to stifle grass, why not add a bit of portland cement, sand and water, cure, and have a patio!

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#26
In reply to #22

Re: Floating Deck

05/25/2009 1:17 PM

In the US of A we have codes for construction and to use licensed / certified builders who know the stuff instead of a government agency. (You know we don't like government interference in our lives.)

I never used a Gum Tree for anything and I wonder if they are used for lumber or just to support the Koala and Kukaburra and tiny mouse-like marsupials called antechinuses, which mate in one annual frenzy, after which all the mating males suddenly drop dead.

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#27

Re: Floating Deck

05/26/2009 4:29 PM

I built a deck last year with this system. It is a very good system if the deck is going to be raised a couple of feet off the ground. You just set the block, put in the 4x4s, cut them all to the right height, and put the deck on top of it. My problem was that I only wanted to raise the deck about a foot, so my 2x6's are sitting right on the blocks. That means I had to level each block and that was a lot of work. I have a friend who built his deck with the blocks and the 4x4's and was really happy with it.

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#28
In reply to #27

Re: Floating Deck

05/26/2009 5:04 PM

All is well until the wind blows it into the living room

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#36
In reply to #27

Re: Floating Deck

04/10/2010 11:01 PM

Do you know where to buy the Dek-Blocks? I can't seem to find a distributor.

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#29

Re: Floating Deck

05/28/2009 7:41 AM

in reply to kudukdweller9 we don't use many types of eucalypt for lumber but some are good for furniture. One type that has been used for lumber because of its durability in wet areas; bridges, boats, piers, docks, mine shoreing and in the early days - roads is Jarrah. Eu. marginata. It is also a beautiful furniture timber, once known as Swan River Mahogany. Other, quicker growing species are chipped for paper. Kookaburras are an introduced pest in my half of the country ( Western Oz ) so those that do land in a tree may fall out of it due to the extra weight of lead they suddenly attract. This doesn't worry the locals as they are already used to the drop bears falling out of the eucalypts.

Back to the topic. When i build decks i do it the same way as they used to build timber floors in houses. i.e. -

1 dig holes at specific centers

2 place sole plate ( 1 foot by 1 foot by 2 inch ) in bottom of hole. oz standard.

3 place stump on sole plate and fasten ( nail ). plumb and fill in hole.

4 bolt bearers to stump at the correct height/level

5 fasten ( nail ) joists to bearers at centers to suit thickness and strength of your decking.

6 cut off excess stump sticking above bearer.

7 fasten decking to joists by prefered method. i.e. nail, screw, secret fasteners, clips etc.

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#30
In reply to #29

Re: Floating Deck

05/28/2009 10:59 AM

Thanks JIMRAT,

Sole plate and stump/post are wood?

My 12' by 18' deck's joists rest on an 18 foot long 4 by 10 that is supported by three 4 by 4 posts that are planted in the concrete patio below. The other side is fastened to the house otherwise it would have an identical support.

Now they make a wooden "I" beam using 2 x 4s and along thick sheet of plywood for this. Cost and material saving and still strong.

Jon

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#31
In reply to #30

Re: Floating Deck

05/28/2009 11:28 AM

I hope the stump does not punch through the sole plate. What are the usual details of sole plates, in the other dimensions and specifications?

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#32
In reply to #31

Re: Floating Deck

05/28/2009 12:05 PM

Ask JIMRAT #29

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#33

Re: Floating Deck

05/28/2009 6:37 PM

Thanks for all your help and input. I have been at work and also just got 60 cubic yds of loam dumped and sorta leveled. The guys who brought the loam said I could rake it out by hand but I have pretty much given up on that idea at this time. I wish I could justify buying the cute little bob-cat with the leveling rake that trails behind but that's not in my future. So right now I'm trying to get someone to grade all the loam on the cheap side so that i can get all the grass side down. After that is accomplished I will start the deck project. Once it is done, I will post some pics..but you will have to be patience..I think this will take most of the summer. Even in this down economy you can't get help fast or cheap. Plus its been raining here in Mass and every one says you can't grade wet dirt.

This is my little side project. I don't have many hours to spend on it because I am "lucky" right now since a big project at work is starting and that will take most of my time for the summer. Trying to figure out how to build a coal to liquids (diesel) facility in China.

I will try to keep you posted as to my progress. Right now I just want to get the grass seed in before it gets hot and won't grow. I really don't want to have to do a "repeat" in the fall.

Thanks again.

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#34

Re: Floating Deck

05/28/2009 7:57 PM

stumps and sole plates are wood?

Yes. here in Oz we are still able to buy C.C.A. treated pine. It has several different treatment levels with our standards talking about retention levels. H4 and above is suitable for inground use. First test piece done about 60 yrs ago and still good.

Copper Chrome Arsenic = C.C.A. =

No rot No bugs.

I believe in the U.S. you now have other sorts of treatment. A.C.Q being one.

your lumber supplier should know.

We are also starting to see L (laminated) V (veneer) L (lumber) that is suitable for outdoor use. I would want to see how the wet joist to bearer joint lasts before i swing to this product. certainly it is strong and straight.

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#35
In reply to #34

Re: Floating Deck

05/28/2009 10:07 PM

LVL

Once it's in place it's pretty nice.

Engineered wood products bonded with resin (phenol, phenol resorcinol, melamine formaldehyde-based, or polyvinyl acetate).

Material Safety Data Sheet

Hazards of working it are here:

http://www.gp.com/build/product.aspx?pid=1392

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