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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2

Replacing Existing Sewage Collectors

06/02/2009 11:41 AM

We have an 8" reinforced concrete sewage collector buried in the streets, we are replacing it with 12" PVC collector.

We ask if we can lay the new collector over the old, connecting new pipe in existing manholes, and later plugging the old with concrete and mortar in the manholes, thus saving time and labor, as opposed to remove completely the old one , to then install the new one.

Is this practice allowed?

Anyone's suggestion may share some light.

Alexander,

Margarita Island.

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#1

Re: Replacing existing sewage collectors.

06/02/2009 1:35 PM

I would suppose you should follow any codes for your geographic location. check for city/county/state etc. building codes.

BTW: Margarita Island?! Excellent!

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#2

Re: Replacing Existing Sewage Collectors

06/02/2009 4:22 PM

That seems a bit odd, usually would remove the pipe if we were excavating anyways, since the flow line is likely an issue (there isn't usually a huge amount of drop allowing you to adjust the flow line of a pipe. As far as placing it over an old, pipe, as long as the underlying pipe is stable and you have the minimal bedding separating the two pipes, it should be ok until the concrete pipe deteriorates and the support collapses under the new pipe.

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#3

Re: Replacing Existing Sewage Collectors

06/03/2009 12:29 AM

laying over the old not a good idea as the old deteriorates it falls to pieces and the new falls with it. dig the old pipe to the bottom of the pipe leaving the solid bottom of the old pipe when you want to connect for the night couple the new to the old and it is ready for the night, come to a manhole chisle out the old and the hole only has to be made slightly larger to accomodate the new size of pipe.

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#4

Re: Replacing Existing Sewage Collectors

06/03/2009 6:24 AM

Whether it is allowed will depend on your local codes. If it is possible will depend on the inverts of the incoming laterals and where in the system you are looking to replace. If you are downstream of existing pipes your new pipe will need to be lower than the upstream pipe so as not to cause a backup in the system.

Although it may not be practical for your situation you could look into Pipe Bursting.

For such a small pipe it may be too costly.

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#5

Re: Replacing Existing Sewage Collectors

06/03/2009 7:12 AM

Any pipe needs proper bedding and inparticular PVC. In order for pvc to maintain the circular cross section, you must have excellent bedding and be mindful of compaction to the sides of the pipe, not just above and below. I mention this because you do not want compaction to force the new line down on top of the rigid existing line and cause failure.

Also, you cannot be very much above the exisiting pipe without the elevation of the new causing problems with the associated flattening out of the service laterals that will need to be reconnected to it. IF there are no service laterals that connect to the pipeline itself and all connections are made at manholes and all connections are above the elevation of the new pipe that you propose then the new elevation is not itself an issue. IF you must be very close to the existing, then the future failure of that line will cause a subsiquent failure to your new line. If you abandon in place the existing, do not plug and cap it at the manholes as you stated. Fill it with flowable fill to prevent future failures carrying away your new bedding and/or inducing a cave-in which will also cause damage to your new system. If you are going to be close to the existing in elevation REMOVE IT AND REPLACE IT and do a complete job. I believe that you find the cost is not that much different in the short term and will be far less in the long run, also elliminated are the headaches and future problems that this will cause go away. Another alternative is to have your contractor crush the old pipe inplace with his exxcavator and apply flowable fill directly to fill voids and prevent futre settlements

Lastly why are you upsizing and yet wanting to go shallower? going from 8 to 12 implies and increase of more than double the existing line capacity, as well and a lower coefficent of Friction. Has development doubled the load or is the new line to cover a larger service area. If a larger area, won't you need the depth inorder to extend the line and account for slope?

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Commentator

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#6

Re: Replacing Existing Sewage Collectors

06/03/2009 9:12 AM

Is existing pipe "reinforced" with steel or asbestos?

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#7

Re: Replacing Existing Sewage Collectors

06/03/2009 10:23 AM

I would recommend a rehab method called "pipe bursting". 8 inch to 12 inch is common. The bursting head can break reinforced concrete pipe and the new 12 inch pipe is pulled in behind. The new pipe can be HDPE, PVC or other material.

Pipe bursting is just one part of the trenchless technology construction methods.

Charlie

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