Previous in Forum: Hydrotesting and Structured Packing   Next in Forum: Antiscalent Balls
Close
Close
Close
9 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Associate

Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 35

Thermal Expansion Valves and Pressure Control Instead of Temperature Control

07/29/2009 3:23 AM

Hi friends

I have two questions:

1. Why would they use a thermal expansion valve at the outlet of a heat exchanger, on the side of the fluid which has gained heat? Where are TXVs usually used at?

2. Where do they usually use pressure control instead of temperature contro in a plant and why?

Thanks a lot

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#1

Re: Thermal expansion valves and pressure control instead of temperature control

07/29/2009 3:27 AM

What sort of equipment do "they" operate? What are "their" processes?

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 35
#2
In reply to #1

Re: Thermal expansion valves and pressure control instead of temperature control

07/29/2009 5:37 AM

My questions concern the process of an oil and gas plant.

The TXV is at the outlet of a heat exchanger, the fluid inside is HC condensate which is being heated.

The pressure control which I talked about is at the outlet of a condenser with sour water as the fluid inside. I realised that pressure transmitter has been used at this place instead of temperature transmitter, although it is the temperature which is supposed to be measured. Someone told me it's because of the sensitivity of the case and that it's difficult to control the temperature, but pressure is preffered as it gives a wider domain in controlling. They are afraid with a small delay in temperature measuring and controlling, the pressure might suddenly go down and vacuum happen.

I want to know where are the places in which this kind of controlling is preferred?

Thank you

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#3
In reply to #2

Re: Thermal expansion valves and pressure control instead of temperature control

07/29/2009 5:45 AM

Not off topic. It's of high relevance to the original posted question.

Without access to a P&ID, it is only possible to state that the location for such control is at similar sorts of installations where these particular fluids and heat exchange is taking place.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bangalore, India
Posts: 725
Good Answers: 24
#5
In reply to #2

Re: Thermal expansion valves and pressure control instead of temperature control

07/30/2009 1:12 AM

In a single component closed system pressure and temperature are uniquely linked. Controlling pressure controls temperature. Mechanical pressure responsive valves can act immediately locally.

The simplest example is a domestic pressure cooker. Though it is the temperature that cooks it is a dead weight pressure regulator that is used as a control element.

bioramani

__________________
bioramani
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Anonymous Poster
#6
In reply to #2

Re: Thermal expansion valves and pressure control instead of temperature control

07/30/2009 2:48 AM

Concerning the pressure control: On Condensing Units which are prone to be in a positive or negative pressure state. Level is often measured here as well through differential between High & Low (wet or dry) This is seen more often on condensers off of steam turbines.

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: India
Posts: 155
#4

Re: Thermal Expansion Valves and Pressure Control Instead of Temperature Control

07/30/2009 12:27 AM

1. The thermal relief valve is provided to allow the expansion of the entrained liquid if the inlet and outlet valves are closed by mistake and heat exchanger is put on. Liquid being incompressible can damage the equipment on closed heating.

2. Pressure control and temperature control are different functions. In the case of some fluids pressure control will also lead to temperature control as in the case of saturated steam.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Piney Flats, Tennessee
Posts: 1740
Good Answers: 23
#7

Re: Thermal Expansion Valves and Pressure Control Instead of Temperature Control

07/30/2009 3:08 AM

Controlled Pressure is part of the stablization process of products in some materials during the manufacturing process.

__________________
If you never do anything you never have problems.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Oman
Posts: 612
Good Answers: 14
#8

Re: Thermal Expansion Valves and Pressure Control Instead of Temperature Control

07/30/2009 6:57 AM

Expansion valves are used at the out let of a condenser of a refrigeration machine to regulate the flow of the liquid refrigerant and to reduce the condenser pressure to evaporator pressure. It is constant enthalpy process.In reverse Carnot cycle turbine is used for expansion.

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 161
Good Answers: 2
#9

Re: Thermal Expansion Valves and Pressure Control Instead of Temperature Control

07/30/2009 10:25 AM

In a distillation column temperature and pressure are directly related, if you fix one the other is also fixed. A change in the temperature at the reboiler will cause a change in temperature of the overheads, eventually and by the same amount, but it will also change the pressure, but one would see the change in pressure more quickly than a change in temperature of the overheads. I believe it is more desirable from a control point to use pressure over temperature when the components being separated by distillation have very close boiling points.

The thermal expansion valve is a safety valve, in case of blocked in flow, the cooling fluid will be relieved if.

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 9 comments

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (1); b v rao (1); bioramani (1); dadw5boys (1); Heita (1); mrswamy (1); PWSlack (2); shooter (1)

Previous in Forum: Hydrotesting and Structured Packing   Next in Forum: Antiscalent Balls

Advertisement