Previous in Forum: Electronic Conductivity on Irregular Shapes   Next in Forum: Brushed Motor
Close
Close
Close
8 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7

New power immed.-distrib. tech/std. conserves?

12/12/2006 1:07 PM

Home and office devices requiring 115 AC decrease in proportion constantly. Lots of energy is wasted in computer power supplies, "wall-warts", and the like. I propose a multi-voltage-level/current-capacities system comprised of a) recessed wall "buss" boxes, in a couple of sizes, total of 5 to 10 per home, and 1 for every 4-8 office users, fed by 115 or 230 VAC through conduits or guides through which an upgrade (or downgrade) wire size could be pulled from the master breaker panel, b) a series of hard-configured and flex/configurable high-efficiency converter units that would plug interchangeably into these boxes, and, c) a flame-resistant-sleeve "conduit" technology for distributing DC multi-level feeds from the converter to wall boxes with a variety of small voltage/load-dedicated sockets. Bringing in facets of the communications-data universe is a possibility to be considered cautiously. A wide-use digital connection for medical monitoring, or LAN, or audio?

When the converter unit sees there is no load using an output, it will shut itself down. If it sees an excessive load, it shuts down. The end-use sockets cannot be gotten into by the tiniest fingers. Include a nice snap-on cosmetic cover plate for the "nothing here right now" condition.

As a bonus in MY design, (this is "End-user overall respect", not electrical engineering), since I dream of wall-suspended units of all sorts to enable easy floor cleaning in a living space for an immune-weakened person, I would make the wall boxes recessed, to cut cord protrusion, and I would have them in a unit providing a heavy steel vertical bottom lip, so a bookcase, computer-desk, dresser, or whatever that also wanted to be there could hook over that lip via a matching bracket screwed to its back. Now my vacuum-cleaner wand can be swiped underneath without running into a bunch of impediments.

Now, engineers and standards people, go for it. The standard should be worldwide. Let me plug my computer into the wall and get +12 and +5 directly, let my new TV get +24 and cable, let my LED lighting get +6 or +12 and perhaps remote level control, (each of these units having a error-preventing plug). Probably manufacturers can "cooperate" into a somewhat reduced diversity of voltages, so you can better optimize those converter circuits—and you can redo the plug-in units, perhaps, if and when some new conversion technique arrives. I have no idea of how many watt hours, how much copper, how much battery waste, and so on can be saved, but isn't this the long-term elegant way to go? --Peter Cross, Belmont, CA

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Guru
New Zealand - Member - Kiwi Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 8777
Good Answers: 376
#1

Re: New power immed.-distrib. tech/std. conserves?

12/12/2006 2:12 PM

There are a number of problems with this have prevented this form of power distribution from ever being adopted. The important ones are - cost, flexibility, and international standards.

COST - The system would be more expensive than our current one. It would actually be hugely expensive to implement. It would waste more resources in infrastructure change both in the electronics and building industry (building design and codes would need to change, and quite a lot if you want distributed DC bus systems in buildings) than would be saved by staying with our current system. Copper prices are very high at the moment also.

FLEXIBILITY - It isn't flexible enough. In fact it is far less flexible than current methods. For home use, how many computers are you going to want in a room and what size power supplies will they require? Some houses may need none, some may need many. For business its even worse. To make it flexible you would need a lot of different systems, you would also need to take into account that technologies change (computers get bigger and need bigger power supplies, computer archetecture development dictates changing power supply voltages, etc). People dont want to have to upgrade their house when new technology comes along. These points also directly link back to cost. In the end you will still need many wall-wart adaptors for all those odd-ball power supplies and portable laptop computers. You would also need to keep the existing inbuilt computer power supply design as many consumers would still want the flexibility (and the infrastructure for building these is already there).

INTERNATIONAL STANDARDS - It's a big world, and there are many different voltages being used. These will change over time. Without a major world-wide rethink, this will always be a problem. Getting groups and countries to agree upon anything is difficult to say the least. The paperwork, redtape and politics alone will not make this project worthwhile. This is a nightmare of a field, trust me.

Development is continuing into more user-friendly wall outlet distribution systems (features such as recessed, cable-ways for data and telecommunication lines, flexible and safe entry points so that a plug can be placed anywhere along a strip, etc) but the output voltage is still the same 230V or 110V (or what ever local country voltage is used).

So in conclusion it won't work because it will cost more than what is done now, would be less flexible than what is being done now and would be a major headache. This is just too big a change. Perhaps some smaller scale development may be more suitable.

__________________
jack of all trades
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: El Lago, Texas, USA
Posts: 2639
Good Answers: 65
#2
In reply to #1

Re: New power immed.-distrib. tech/std. conserves?

12/12/2006 3:46 PM

Hey, I have an idea - how about distributing a standard power - let's say 115VAC, through several outlets in each room of your house or office, and then build end-of-use converters to connect everything from computers to TVs to whatever, wherever you want them. And then as technology changes you just use the converter that comes with every new device. You could call them wall warts.

Register to Reply
Guru
New Zealand - Member - Kiwi Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 8777
Good Answers: 376
#3
In reply to #2

Re: New power immed.-distrib. tech/std. conserves?

12/12/2006 4:19 PM

Now this proposal is more realistic (with some modifications of course). TV's and computers and similar such things which have special voltage needs already have special built-in power supplies. It is already a simple matter to get, say 5V with a very simple addition to that power supply, so a product you are suggesting is not going to be any help here. But, the promising area is in providing a simple mass-produced converter that can power devices that run on a single DC voltage, such as cellphone chargers, Halogen desk lamps, etc and be reused for another product. This would atleast help address some of the product waste that is created when a product is thrown away, by removing the bulk of the power supply out of the product and reusing it on the next.

But, how to start, hmmmmm . Manufacturers of new products could use a universal power supply for a large range of their existing and future product lines. This is already being done in the industry to a certain extent (as you mentioned with wall warts), but could be extended to cover a much larger range of products than just the individual product it came with. It may be possible to eventually reduce the huge number of variations between companies down to a few thru broard (but flexible) standardisation. It worked for batteries afterall.

__________________
jack of all trades
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: El Lago, Texas, USA
Posts: 2639
Good Answers: 65
#4
In reply to #3

Re: New power immed.-distrib. tech/std. conserves?

12/12/2006 4:34 PM

I was just being facetious, of course. It's really a trade off of universality vs efficiency. You can get the most efficient power supplies if you design them to be optimal at a certain load, i.e., a particular device. You could gain some universality by designing a general purpose power supply to drive a variety of devices, but efficiency would suffer, especially if the power supply has to cover a very large range - say 1mW to 1KW.

Also there is the issue that many devices use multiple voltages : +12, +5, +3.3, +2.5, +1.5, +/-15 - these are all standards these days, and many devices require that these supplies power on in a specific order, and vary in the amounts of noise and regulation that are required. I can see a situation where your PC works fine until you plug in your TV, now there's too much noise on the power bus - because you've moved all the power conditioning circuitry out of the PC box.

Also, defining power standards would limit the design of new electronics. Example, if we chose the standard voltages widely in use 20 years ago, we would have +5V. But then it became necessary to go to 3.3V in ICs, then 2.5V, then 1.5V, and now we're approaching 1V. Whatever "standard" you build has to be able to change with the times.


The best power solution is a standard, and easily transformable single source (such as 115VAC, or the EU equivalent), and dedicated, high efficiency converters at the point of load in every device.

Register to Reply
Guru
New Zealand - Member - Kiwi Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 8777
Good Answers: 376
#6
In reply to #4

Re: New power immed.-distrib. tech/std. conserves?

12/12/2006 4:51 PM

Most products that could benefit from a single separate reusable external power supply product will fall into a small power range and (to a lesser degree) voltage range. It wouldn't be too difficult to have a small range of selectable output voltages (say 2 or 3, likely no more) that could cover a much wider range of products, while still being cheap enough for mass production. Remember you can never cover all contingencies, but if you can cover many or even a few then there may be a market (especially in a huge market such as consumer products).

__________________
jack of all trades
Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7
#5

Re: New power immed.-distrib. tech/std. conserves?

12/12/2006 4:42 PM

Yes, it is a complex problem. But a lot of energy (thus, natural gas, coal) is getting wasted. Your average computer power supply runs at 75% efficiency? That adds up officewide, nationwide. Pick all the nits you want, you're the engineers! Come up with more efficient power supplies. --PRC, Belmont, CA

Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: El Lago, Texas, USA
Posts: 2639
Good Answers: 65
#7
In reply to #5

Re: New power immed.-distrib. tech/std. conserves?

12/12/2006 5:39 PM

Anyone who builds a supply with < 90% efficiency these days just isn't trying.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4484
Good Answers: 246
#8

Re: New power immed.-distrib. tech/std. conserves?

12/12/2006 10:51 PM

I hate these wall warts too, and would prefer that they simply be built into the device to be powered, as they are in desktop computers, TV's, stereos , etc. At least since the advent of solid state stuff, we've always had to provide one or more dc voltages to make things work. Why are these power supplies now outside the device, instead of inside?

In terms of energy consumption, I'd think the idle current must be extremely small: I might have 15 or 20 these things in my house, and I'd bet all of them combined consume a watt or two when idle. They'd be more efficient if they sensed load current and put themselves in standby mode (drawing a milliwatt or so) when off load.

It could be argued that all these wall warts are optimally sized for their intended uses, and that any standardized system would have to be built for a great deal of excess capacity, so that total efficiency would be lower.

I'd love to see outlets like you describe, but I can't imagine that actually happening. Other niceties would be one or two UPS sockets in every room, all supplied by one UPS located at the circuit breaker panel. Also, as I think you are suggesting, it would be great to have wire chases throughout the house, so that you could pull in additional wires when required without having to cut into walls.

__________________
There is more to life than just eating mice.
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 8 comments
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

bhankiii (3); Blink (1); jack of all trades (3); sustainable_humane_2100 (1)

Previous in Forum: Electronic Conductivity on Irregular Shapes   Next in Forum: Brushed Motor

Advertisement