Inventors

Well, I'm not the guy that you seek, but I've done somethings in small scale that worked for internal use in the company I work for. I'd say that it depends on the country you live in, what do you expect from your product, and its nature - if its easily reverse-engineered or not.

In the vast majority of the cases I've seen, Its not worth. Build it, make it be manufactured quick, inexpensive, and sell for a price a competitor would be discouraged to do. Make money and be happy. This is by far the best defense you could have against copy or piracy. And patents can be cracked, the product may have something altered and the same principle is used but the patent is burled.

BTW, high prices by the famous "positioning" the product in the market by the marketing guys are the causes for copying and cracking things. This is a fact. But take the example of the iphone. Its advanced. Its not that expensive (ok, here in Brazil it is prohibitive...). Competitors did not get to it already.

Gorilla marketing is what I typically employ. I've been the "marketing" person who has been part of product launches and/or brands. The prototype I have is made of existing components that I MacGyver. And, you are right about the best revenge. "First pig to market wins!" Make it and sell it fast because everyone will be right behind you with a knock off. Although the packaging and branding could make all the difference even if that happens. I've come up with other product ideas before out of existing ones to only see it 3-9 months on tv. It's frustrating!!! Consider this . . . I'm cleaning my kid's room out and find a pogo stick. I am tired sitting on the couch and push down on it and notice my stomach contract. I take it to my chiropractor and discuss. He tells me go for it so I start looking to have someone make spring shorter and more pliable, etc. But before I can get any further the "AB CRUNCHER" is on tv selling faster than hot cakes. I've had several of these although a few of my friends an I did get the shower buddy off the ground in that we got a prototype done by a fellow mechanical engineer. I saw it on tv late in the morning. I did not profit from that participation. Complicated story I'd rather not repeat. Maybe you've seen the shower buddy. It's for guys who can't reach their back side in the shower. It has a pad to scratch your back. Think bear rubbing his back against a tree trunk. You see the use and problem it can solve. Invent something that solves a problem and you've got a winner. Ron Popeil's book has mixed reviews on patents as well. As for iphone that's in a class all it's own with loads of money to back it up if you try to knock anything off. Thanks for the feed back.

Even if you patent your product, if a major corporation with plenty of lawyers decides they want the idea, they will take it and let you sue. Then they delay the legal process as long as they can, driving up YOUR legal costs to defend your patent, then just before the final court date, they will settle out of court. You will be lucky to cover your legal costs in the long run.

I agree with cwarner, a patent only provides 2 things: 1- gives you the right to enforce it by first asking firmly to the infringing party to cease and desease their infringing activity followed by a lawsuit if they do not back down and the latter can be quite costly, 2- it acts as a deterent but only for the non aggressive parties that can take advantage of what you came up with. If the product is commercially viable and potentially high return, someone somewhere will not be able to resist,

Have you ever heard of Bruce Johnson? Probably not, or you've forgotten. You may have used his product though, or seen him on TV. He did some TV ads for it a few years ago - the Breathe Right nasal strip. How about Jerry Rice, wearing one on Monday Night Football in '93? Remember that?

Johnson invented the BRNS in his basement and got several patents on it as he perfected it. Then cut a deal with a company to get it manufactured and marketed. (Google "bruce johnson breathe right") Competitors knocked it off. His patents withstood litigation in court and reexamination in the U.S. Patent Office. (I've looked at the cases.) I'm sure it was hell at the time, and I'll bet some days he had a few doubts about patents.

In 2006, GlaxoSmithKline bought CNS Inc., the maker of BRNS for $566 million in cash. (Google "breathe right company acquisition") Do you think GSK would have paid that if his patents were worthless? Or would they have just knocked it off too?

All that wealth creation spawned by one guy working in his basement. He had a great idea and worked hard. Maybe had some luck too. Among solo inventors, is he the exception - the one who "lived to tell and even prospered"? Sure, he's exceptional, and most solo inventors fail. Nonetheless, it does happen. I don't know what his cut of the $566M was (especially after taxes), but I'll bet he doesn't have to work any more.

jhammond

_________________________

www.patent-innovations.com

I worked with a group in S. Cal. on a few products (melatonin - might of heard of this and a few other products) that made some folks money. And, what I observed other than the obvious (have money to make money) is that getting in the marketing/distribution channel is as critical as making the product itself. It's not really a toss up. If you can get the product made and already have the distribution/marketing channel primed to go then you are set. I read someplace that Walmart will work with an inventor on a product for a cut. Talk about a well place distribution/marketing channel. Well, maybe I should visit my friend in Los Angeles and see if he can't help me finish writing the patent for this product. He has written many and has many in his name. He's agreed to do it for a cut. I just have to get to him before he knocks off. The fellow is in his 90s. Sharp as a tack but hey time is off the essence. In the meantime, I need to continue my research for a plastic manufacturer. Maybe I'll pick up some luck along the way and the right/honest sources. Thanks all for your feedback. Very much appreciated. And, good luck to all of you lone inventors out there.

If you can prove infringement, you are entitled to 40 percent of all profits that the infringer made.If you can prove willfull infringement, the jury can award damages also in addition.

After you've paid the patent lawyers their $$$$ and gotten your patent, if anyone infringes on you, what will you do? Pay another set of lawyers $$$$ to sue. Your idea, if good will be copied. If it's really good the Chinese will have a copy on the market in days.

Yes, China. They wave a wand and poof it's manufactured in the 1000s for nothing, the market is flooded and all is lost (crumbs maybe). This is a constant. There are knock offs of everything. All inventions are built on something as they say. One discovery, idea, etc built on another. It's how that morphed "invention" solves a problem/customers, timing, marketing and distribution. Yes, this can be a vicious cycle which makes one wonder how anything gets invented and/or produced at all. Oh, yes - money! Lots and lots of money, right resources, partners and timing. The Chinese have these things in spade, right?

Because of this, it wold be clever first to sell Production License to China, and let them fend off other Chinese companies, huh?

Unfortunately, there piracy is protected and promoted by government, as I have heard.

Western countries cannot compete with Chinese factories because they are quite willing to sell things at production price, so their workers are fed and machine can be replaced as necessary. Since they work for handful of rise per day, they get cheap products, and they know that no other economy can beat them, so in the long run all other economies are bound to be backbroken.

If Coca-Cola was not so greedy to grab new market and earn money, doors to Western world would never be opened. Now almost whole World suffer consequences.....

India saw what was coming and closed its borders for Chinese goods, so they are now among better standing countries in worldwide financial crisis.

Chinese made one mistake only: they thought they can sell low quality goods just because it is dirt cheap.

People in Europe already declared that goods under standard quality cannot be imported, at least in EU, and in smaller countries after first rush (which cost my country its whole textile industry) they stopped to buy things which fall apart after few days....

It is old saying in my country: >>If you are not rich enough, don't buy cheap things!<< :-))

So, in regard to patents, it is best to sell Production Licenses at once in as many countries as possible, without rights for them to export such products outside.

Then let those companies protect their Production Licenses by fighting others that would like to make cheap copies.

It is also wise to be moderate in fixed prices so Licenses would be affordable for buyers, and obligatory ask at least 10% of selling price as royalty. I would say this is winning formula, and this is what I plan to do....

Surely this would bring enough money for inventor, who can then spend his time inventing other things without worries about market and production, then selling them same way.........

One of things I plan to do is to start fund for help to other inventors, as I am sure every one would gladly give 25% of their earnings if somebody honestly help with development and take care of organizing production and marketing, at least I would do this right now at once.

One of clever tricks when selling Inventions, or rather Production Licenses is to saddle buyer with obligation to patent invention in inventor name in their country, and pay for patent maintenance for next 20 years as well. That way amount of money they have to pay for fixed price would look still smaller, and maintenance is paid every year, not at once.

Yes, money is prerequisite, so because of this, invention have to be worth investing into, as everyone expect to get this money back and earn lot more. As i wrote already, if there is similar product on market already, then they can undercut your price and sell below your production cost. Only way to beat them is to sell under their production cost, even if that means losing money on start, and it is easier to do if your production cost is really smaller than their, in Chinese style......

Since You worked in marketing, then I need not explain psychology of buyer, habitual buying what was bought before if it was good enough and cheap enough. Your products can be several times better or more practical or whatever, but people would still choose cheaper thing, specially in hard financial times like those now.

So, don't aim to become stinking rich on first invention, just provide Yourself with conditions to make more inventions, if that was not just single idea You had......

But on the other hand, if there is no competition and thing fulfill some need or solve a problem, then all is left to do (beside before mentioned tactics) is to produce as much as possible in short time and flood the market. Moderate prices would discourage competition to follow, and big production makes things cheaper to produce, provided you have good economist at hand who knows what are rabats on quantity, superrabats and so on.....

Yes, still for this someone have to finance production, and this one would expect lion's share of profit, too.........

But next time it can be yourself who would be financing it all, and therefore you would take most of profit.

Path of least resistance is to sell Production Licenses and let others invest money and time, and more they produce, more money would they earn for YOU in royalties.

So, enough of advices, specially free ones :-))

Regards and good luck!

Thanks. I had an issue so I invented something to resolve the issue. I believe that is usually a good measure as to whether a product will be bought by consumer. Does it solve a problem/issue. It does. I have to say that after reading all these comments it makes me wonder how anything gets to market at all. This is a process involving many snake pits where one is sure to get bitten. It's no wonder I'm the only user of my invention. As a marketer, I know it's potential. I've been with others who had money to make money. Finding people to trust to work with is a huge issue. I'm old fashion where a handshake should be golden but the world doesn't work this way at all. Integrity, etc all very hard to find. License is an option. Here again, there is the issue of how trustworthy an organization and/or the people involved are in the deal. Bottom line, this sucks that I just can't take my invention and let others benefit from its use. It's not a grand product but it does solve a problem for many. My target consumer - women. How many women do you are out there? Yes, plenty. Back to the drawing board as they say. . .

Well, I decided to break ice with just one thing that is easiest to describe according to rules and regulations, and this is my new type of wind turbine. Now only if I could be 100% sure nobody has invented it before. Actually I found one patent that may describe something quite similar, but I was unable to get pictures/drawings that go with patent. So I hope to prepare papers today, but I dont know where to find money I have to pay to Patent Office :-((

My friend had a friend who was inventor, and he collected severall gold medals on invention fairs, but in the end he died from hunger, literaly :-((

Wether he invested all money to prototypes or have simply forgoten to eat, I dont know, but I am pretty close to this myself......

As usuall, Lord would provide if he is pleased by my work, but then I sometime think (seeing how tiefs and robbers prosper) that He like to torture people to see if they would start cursing Him or not......

Well, I shall know soon enough :-))

Regards from Zagreb, the capitol of Croatia, Europe!

good luck to you. i have already been robbed once during this process and others so i am intent on being very careful. i hope all turns out good for you.

Thank You! That is why I am doing this by myself, less people know about it untill it is patented, the better! Even submiting Patent application gives me enough advantage over late commers :-))

In the first place, a prototype is not required for the application.

However, you will need it for your marketing, and especially if you plan to secure funding. P.S. Having the patent is almost a requirement to get funding, too.

Find a solo patent attorney in your city who will quote you a flat fee. That is the current trend. Make sure you know what it covers: the application, the search and the work on the back end? or not. The back end work comes after the PTO finally sends their first Office Action.

Realize it may take 3-6 years just to get a patent. The PTO is really backed up.

Good luck.

Before you spend more time wandering whether or not you should patent, may I suggest you take some time to ask yourself a couple of questions, just as if you were a potential really hard and inventive competitor :

1) What is the end result achieved by my idea. What are the alternatives to achieve similar or equivalent end results ?

2) My invention is related to a specific mean of obtaining a certain result. What are the other actions not currently covered by my idea (and therefore not covered by my eventual patent), for each means previously identified as leading to similar or equivalent results.

Of course, those questions are relevant only if a real market exists for your idea, considering its costs and the price that will be asked.

No answer can be given to the patent/no patent question without having had a good, really HARD look, at all the parameters involved.

Relatively few patents are actually generating revenues but then, some are, hence the need for the really challenging attitude that I suggest you adopt. Patent agents may contribute and shoud eventually contribute to such a reflexion but should not be trusted to carry it in your place. Their primary goal is that you are satisfied that you effectively get a patent, usefull or not...)

end result.

GA, Aviator. Couldn't agree more. I often encounter inventors who haven't looked at their overall endeavor as a business, where a patent is just a small aspect of it, and the heavy lifting is in product manufacturing and marketing. And in some cases to realize that a patent is not needed and of no advantage, or not obtainable with enough breadth to be worth anything. Unfortunately, some of these folks eventually find an unscrupulous patent practitioner who is happy to take their money and obtain a patent for them with the coverage of a postage stamp. Then when someone else easily designs the product to get around their narrow patent (perfectly legal), and enters the market with it, they disparage the patent system in general, when their beef should be with the practitioner.

jhammond

__________________________

www.patent-innovations.com

This would make your comment and GA, Aviator a confirmation of something else someone said to me in the simplest of way. First pig to market wins! File the patent. That's all good but you need to produce and get it into market fast. The product has to start selling. All good perspectives and feedback. Much appreciated.

Hi, Jhammond!

I am inventor from Croatia, homeland of great inventor and engineer Nikola Tesla.

We are here born and bred inventors, because for thousand of years we were guardians of Europe against Turks, Tatars, Awars and other great empires whose armies tried to conquer it. Because we were mostly left to our own devices for war and everyday life, we learned to use all we have in hand several ways, as one has to do work of ten or more people.

Anyhow, that is one of my problems, that nobody consider it to be something extraordinary to invent something here, and nowadays people think that it is invented already whatever is or was worth inventing, so there is nothing to invent any more :-((

Additional problem is that people in this modern times look first what qualifications one has, and ask what I have patented before.....

Last but not least, we say here: >>Nobody is Prophet in his own house<<, so even most of my friends simply don't believe that I can invent anything!

They ask me >>Where you get knowledge to invent it?<<, just like anybody cannot have his moment of inspiration, and even if I am just Systems Analyst and Systems Engineer specialized in area if Informational Technology, I have grown up among machines that my father built or devices he repaired (he was gunsmith and graveur, but he worked in factory that produced machines, and more often than not, engineers there came to ask him for advice, since he invented many things but have given it all to factory for free) and his hobby was to make puzzles very hard to unravel for me, so in a way he learned me how to think and solve complicated problems. I also worked in factory 6 years, where I consorted with engineers who had perpetual assignment to think how to improve machines and make them safer to work on. I managed to pull quite few surprises for them out of my hat, and they genuinely appreciated my ideas, as every single one proved to be workable and solved some problem they were tangling with long time without results.

Perhaps I would work still in same factory if there did not come team of Psychologists to test IQ of workers, trying to prove theory that workers are workers since they are not intelligent enough to be anything more :-((

To their great surprise, (and they tested me 7 times with different tests under their strictest observation, to be sure I do not cheat on those tests somehow ) they find I have IQ of 214 in area of logic thinking, but all they did about it was to lament on me for not going to study (which I could not afford since my family was poor) and for their nice theory that have flopped once they found even one worker with high IQ, which was not really clever since there are usually exceptions to every rule........

Well, it was long ago, and because of them I went first to evening school for computer programmers, and next to study Economy, since everywhere they asked only which kind of Diploma I have, not what I am capable of doing...... But as we say in Croatia, >>Most of bad things are blessing in disguise<<, and I excelled in Economy even in high school, and I was lucky that I had a teacher who was also one of top experts in the field, who, more important, knew how to teach the subject in a way to make it interesting even for those not naturally gifted with abilities in that area.

I was omnivore reader all my life and had good memory and fast recollection, as whenever someone said some not so common word, I would instantly remember all that I know about it and thing it represent. It was nuisance most of the time, specially during work in the factory, but become quite an asset when I changed JOB of printing technician for that of programmer.

Even in Primary school, I was extremely lucky to attend >>First Experimental Primary School<<, where we have had cabinets and laboratories for each and every subject fully equipped with demonstration tools and example charts, and our teachers were not ordinary, but scientists from nearby Atomic, Biological and Chemistry Research Institute, and most of them held 2-3 titles of Doctor of Sciences..... I was one of their star pupils, so good that it merited even introduction to President of country (former Yugoslavia, and his name was Josip Broz Tito) who devoted full hour of his time to talk with me about school and my parents :-)) Everybody was frazzled by his presence, but I was not, perhaps because my two uncles were high aviation officers, so I was used to see uniforms often enough.

As I wrote, this was >>experimental<< school, and theory was that with good education even kids of postmen, undertaker and others like this in my class could become intellectuals, just same as children of Directors, Movie actors or Party functionary that went together with us in same class, and we were to be left to our own after Primary school to be seen what we would accomplish.........

So, that is my background and perhaps can explain why I have plenty of practicable ideas and was expert troubleshooter and business adviser for many years.

Right now, I am working on patents for new kind of Windpower Stations, Solarpower Stations and Water condensation devices, which I believe are necessary in this time of energy and financial crisis, but wherever I knock on the doors, nobody seems to be interested, at least if I don't patent it first........

Finally I succeeded to cut trough >Red tape<< surrounding Patent Application papers. and have redrawn my nice 3D drawings by hand into black lined sketches required by Patent Office, and applied for patent of my new Wind turbine. Since it wont work optimally without construction that would catch, compress and speed up wind, I mentioned such construction and its main parts as indivisible from this type of turbines, so I have to fill Patent Application for such constructions next. It took me two months of writing and rewriting invention description just for turbines, because same principle can be produced in so many forms, so I have to cover at least three of main shapes, two in regard to air compartments number and two types of turbine >>wings<< which actually don't look like wings at all but are just walls dividing turbine internally into air compartments..........

Now I have to describe two main types of constructions, active and passive, and at least three-four of each kind in some of possible forms, with all details like wind pressure regulation systems or safety mechanisms that would protect Windpower Stations from too strong wind, beside parts for capturing and compressing wind, which are essentiall...

I have clear and detailed ideas for each model, but I don't have tools for drawing this fast and in form of engineering blueprints fit for Patent Application. If I had money, I would still be hard put to choose which program to buy, as I tried many to find that each has some of necessary functions, but not single one has it all, and worst is that they have all some proprietary formats for their files and mostly they cannot import some common format files :-((

So, I also have clear idea how good, or rather, excellent tool for Inventors should be made (that is one of my future projects) that would enable anyone with an idea to assemble such device and test it virtually fast..........

I >>invented<< (or rather, adapted some Economy Rules and laws pertaining to Production in factories) financial system that would be perfect >>Retirement Fund<< as it would start paying 20% per year from the beginning to its Members, so nobody would be afraid to lose JOB if this 20% would be enough for living expenses, and people could retire whenever they want as soon as this 20% would be enough for living normally. Moreover, system would be multiplying deposited money at least three times in each 36 months, when this multiplied amount would be added to initial deposit and so guaranteed 20% amount would be tripled also. Since each Member would be able to monitor over Internet database of projects financed by Fund and see exactly where his money is used and how much he already have in form of money in his possession, there could be no fraud involved, and such system can be used by government or big corporations or Banks, Insurance companies or Pension Funds exclusively, so surely those people would not cheat on themself....... Best is, this system is intended to build factories and industrial installations that would process agricultural, industrial and other waste into useful products, or would build Windpower and Solarpower Stations to produce cheap electricity. So, this would bring employment, contracts for companies that would build and maintain factories and installations, money to technology providers, and taxes like VAT and Profit and Income Tax to governments. If I add that factories and installations built are to be given away for free, in first place to Fund Members if they want to own and run them, and then to other people capable of running them, workers working in them or some community groups like vilagers that could receive it for entire village, be it agricultural waste processing plant or Power Station.........

I could prove it work, and of course, if it would not work I would not earn any money as author of system and database architect, but still I cannot find investor who would invest some money to start it (it needs cca 200 000 Euro to start, but I think with some organizational tricks, I could manage to start it even with 50 000 Euro, but that would require process modularization and phasing, where each production phase should be self sufficient and functional), as everyone think it is just new type of SCAM..........

So, what would You recommend me to do?

My Power stations could produce electricity at cost of 10$ per MWh (and we pay 600$ per MWh to grid company here), so even if consumer price is halved, and one producing it has to sell it at half >>street<< price to Grid company, and if price in US is 200$ per MWh, that would bring 900% profit to owner of PS, right? While we would all pay half of our present bills for electricity, which should make all products cheaper, specially if factory has >>dedicated<< or captive Plant that would give electricity at cost of 10$ per MWh or less.........

Therefore, I am sure that my Wind and Solar PS would sell like ice cream on hot summer day, but still, nobody seems to be interested to invest money :-((

My Water condensation units of agricultural capacity could enable people in hot and dry climate to be able to produce their own food regularly, so I am sure one to three billions could be better fed than they are right now, and so much new plants would remove lot of CO2 from air, which could help even with problem of Global Warming process.........

I knocked on doors of Foundations that have sworn to eradicate poverty and hunger in this World, and still nobody is answering me! At Rockefeller Foundation they deleted my mail without being read at all, and it was done by Mrs. Katherine Gomez, who seems to be of Mexican origin or has married someone who is from there originally, and tragedy is that Mexico is perfect example country where my water devices can help best :-((

So, can You help me to help people of this World?

Commercially, I know that I can sell at least 100 000 units for personal use in India every month for next 15 years, and there is Middle East, Africa, China........

With just 100$ of profit per unit, that would be plenty of profit for anyone investing into this, what do You think? As inventor, I would take just 10% of this profit, is that too much?

Still, nobody want to support me so I could patent it all........

After patenting, I could fast sell Production Licenses, and that would be enough for me, so I need help right now, as later would be easy to take piece of this big cake, and everyone would want to grab some.........

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I contacted US Embassy thinking they could forward my emails to Mr. Obama, but they told me that >>they cannot do it<<, and that I should contact private companies, but, sorry, there is no >>Industrial Department<< in embassy any more, so I have to do it on my own.........:-((

Same thing happened in several other countries Embassies, so I don't really understand what is function of those Embassies, if their personnel behave like they are on vacation or in political exile :-))

I addressed Ambassador of India right after he read message from their President about bad year in which monsoon rains have failed to produce enough water, so there would be at least 30% less rise grown, telling him about my water devices, and he replied that >>it is matter for commercialization<< to which I replied that in my opinion it is matter of providing food and water for people, and commercialization comes last on my scale of priorities, and so should it be for government of India also.

Well, so much for >>Voice of President<< that Ambassadors are supposed to be!

CR4 ADMIN: This post was edited to remove advertising outside the Commercial Space forum. Please review Section 14 of the CR4 Site FAQ about advertising.

Regards, Marijan Pollak, IT SA/SE 1st. Class, Instructor and Team Leader (retired)

Jads007......i have many customers in the same situation as yourself.......Where abouts are you?.....

drop us a line we are more happy to help out

anthony@alnoproductservices.com.au

www.alnoproductservices.com.au

one more proof this world it is ruled by idiots we the inventors make the life easier for everybody including for those idiots we should be encouraged and in some cases paid by the mafia governments so we can invent more and and make life easier for everybody THE FISH WILL START TO STINK FROM THE HEAD ALWAYS