PC Sound Mixer

Two words: Pro Tools.

Thanks for that lead --- don't know how it escaped my prior searching.

However, it appears as though in addition to the $1995 for the software, one must find a 'Dealer' and purchase any of several External Hardware pieces ranging from "PicnicTable" size, down to (at a minimum) the "Venue SC48"... to get the various audio inputs into the pc. And these external hardware pieces perform some of the functions that I am referring to (the intention of) using the pc to perform.

This is where the "vision fades" ... Is it not possible to have a tower/motherboard system with 4 (or however many it takes) PCIexpress cards, each of which provides an XLR input and a triplet-or-more of 1/4" (instrument) plugs in order to get the various "tracks" A/D'd > into> the pc ... ?

From there, the software suite does the rest, whether you're "Live" or in a recording session, laying down tracks individually, and mixing them later...? [*Understood* that those PCI cards would require a chip-or-two in order to be able to perform the tricks being asked of them.] {or, am I dreaming too big, for the current state-of-the-bus-art?}

[Of course, the desire is still to include "multiple channels in", and, with negligible latency, 7.1-channel output thru another card in the same "box".]

You could do the mixing with this :http://www.zzounds.com/item--ALEMULTIMIX8USB

And send the output to the PC via USB.

Saw this 'as fast as I posted above'... interesting little box, there (not too obtrusive, size wise) if it only had more inputs.

Would need at least 5 mics ... plus midi keyboard, plus electronic drumset ... plus guitars ; 5 on stage, but only 4 at any given time being used, so.....(??)

Seeing the wiki comparison of various Multi-Track-Recording software, I am simply amazed that so much effort has gone into the PC software end ... and that the hardware aspect (as my own vision sees it) doesn't seem to have even "broken-ground" yet ... (?)

Use two?

Multiple mic. level inputs on a pc card is going to be hard to find, the internal electrical noise levels of a pc are murder on low level audio analog signals.

What is your budget? This is where you must start.

To do what you want professionally, the Industry standard is Pro Tools, but your budget would need to be in the $5,000-$10,000+ range.

There are MANY I repeat MANY options/styles/brands to choose from.

When I'm recording live shows, I use a Yamaha AW4416 (its old but the sound is amazing), plugged to my PC Via the Firewire card. It will track 16 Tracks, (with the expansion card) It also has really great on board effects, and other nifty toys as well. New it ran about $4,000, but you could pick one up nowadays for under $1,000.

CuBase offers some simple home studio interfaces, I have a 4 track which plugs into the PC Via USB for quick records while writing a song, or tracking in layers. The sound quality is not bad (Nothing like the Yamaha).

In the end, there are so many choices, and ways to do your recordings, It really depends on exactly what you want, cause I guarantee there is something on the market just for you.

Is this a hobby, or are you doing this professionally? This answer would make a huge difference on which avenue you should choose. If you plan to record on the professional level, you will need to consider things such as the Upgrade-ability of your hardware to stay current with the industry trends. You have looked at the Industry standard Pro level stuff (Pro-Tools), so you should have an Idea of the Upper end of the spectrum.

Another question you need to ask yourself, is how portable do you need to be? If portability is of concern, you may think about picking up a relatively inexpensive 16+ track hard drive recorder. (This is my "On the Road" recording style of Equipment) The Hard disk Recorders are highly portable and generally easy to use. Once you have finished with the show, you save the file/s on the units hard drive, pack it back to the studio and plug it into your PC to upload all 16+ separate tracks into your software of choice.

I suggest heading down to a few different music shops in your area, and talk with the recording guru's there, tell them exactly what you want, or you'll end up with something you don't.

DO NOT get in a big hurry and buy... wait, shop, research intently.

Good Luck.

I'll be around if you have specific questions.

Thanks ... Guess it would've helped to mention that *recording* is only an "afterthought" (not of concern at this point in time).

"Super-ultra-professional" performance is not exactly in-the-crosshairs either.

The objective of my thoughts aims to improve both the quality and dispersion of sound being produced twice weekly by a very dedicated music-worship team ... who might very well, one day down the road, wish to burn something to CD.

Thought is : given that most every standard mixer on the market provides stereo output (only), I can't help but wonder:

why can't a pc ... having software as capable as some of that which is already out there (link to wiki comparison above) be setup to bring-in all the various channels; mix/add/blend as desired; and then, direct / switch (and/or fade) as desired the various sounds to any one of multiple speakers (7.1)...?

Seems like a "no-brainer" possibility to me ; but, then again, I'm not "in-the-business", so I'm not programmed to think along the lines of all the mega-tons of equipment already lining the music shop shelves, waiting to be drooled-over.

Perhaps that is exactly where I'll need to head ... but, I couldn't help but ask the question (esp after my demo-peek into FL Studio).

Rest assured , more questions will follow (eventually). Thanks for the input!

Wait now I'm confused, you say:

"Thanks ... Guess it would've helped to mention that *recording* is only an "afterthought" (not of concern at this point in time)."

so... you literally just need to mix live sound? Why do you want to bring the audio into the computer in the first place if you just want a live mix? Just go buy a real mixer.. you'll get a much better quality and feel over any software.

Software is really great for editing...

I have a buddy who has a dedicated computer in the "jam room" He has a simple 16 track interface connected to this computer via USB, and runs all the tracks into pro-tools, where he mixes them live in a virtual sense. (no real faders) This seems to be more or less what you are trying to do?

I'm partial to the old school methods myself, I prefer mixing on an actual mixing console, and recording in analogue on a reel to reel, If working on a album... save the computer for the mastering... But in the same time, I'm currently putting together a demo album, and a Live album for a really great folk band here in the west, which is being done 100% Digital. But even when I'm doing things 100% Digital I like to have the hardware mixer connected to the PC, so I can push/pull on real faders. I like to feel the slide of a well maintained fader. Its all about interfaces....

Get the right Interface for your needs.

To name a few MOTU Presonus

For exceptional guidance contact Matt Adams

Thanks to bwire (8) and Randall (9) for those links, too...

MOTUs 896mk3 as well as numerous of the PreSonus pieces are, just like previous suggestions, interesting bits of hardware. Though one of them MAY, in fact, wind up being used, I think that stevem (post 7) may have nailed the crux of the problem here; "the internal electrical noise levels of a pc are murder on low level audio analog signals"

. . . This may be *THE* singular reason that audio [INPUT] hardware for the pc has not evolved as my own imagination would have liked ... though that's a tough nut to swallow, given the awesome s/n ratios available on current high-end cards...(?)

[I have yet to fully explore Nat'l Instrument's DAQ gallery for said audio usage ~ but that link was interesting in that I've tried several times to justify (company) investment in some Labview tools...]

IF anyone feels like tackling a dedicated / standalone pc audio workstation that "does-it-all" (inputs, effects, mixing, directing to various amps) I have lots of suggestions! (and a Carver Cinema 7 amp volunteering to be guinea-pigged!) Thanks to all~

"the internal electrical noise levels of a pc are murder on low level audio analog signals"

Computer audio workstations were configured to overcome this as well as other phenomena involving the various input hardware/software conflict issues. DAW's have come a long way and I urge you to not try and reinvent a wheel; ie use of lab I/O hardware, in this type endeavor (experience). I've gone around the horn with IT professionals whom were unwilling to commit to the erroneous idea that audio computing could be different somehow it's all zero's and 1's. In the instances my suggestions were heeded success prevailed, in others the IT pro's succumbed to failure combating failure and conflicts rather than the task. Digress and look into the conflict issues no longer experienced but go back first to when there were conflicting issues in audio computing, research at about 1990-2000, at about 2005 the field was leveled but the trouble experienced early is that I'm urging you to avoid.

Take you're best shot, I suggest consultation by those with experience in the audio computing field, not in a vested position. I admit I usually favor systems which have proven to perform at expectancy for other when configuring a startup system, first impressions can pave the way.

hey-

Have you checked out Hammerfall cards?

http://www.gigasonic.com/rme-hdsp-9632-pci-card.html
details at
http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_hdspe_raydat.php

( V ) * Peace

A hearty "Thanks" to bwire and Guest here... (could be a couple "GA's" coming-up)

Don't recall ever running across Hammerfall in any of my searches...(?) Maybe because google doesn't emphasize them due to location (Germany) or due to limited support on this side of the pond...?(I'll soon find out)

Anyway ~ to reiterate of sorts ... in that old context of "A picture says a thousand words" ... have a look ... and,

anyone / everyone in the US of A , have a great Labor Day...!

Just realized I wasn't logged-on posting the above from the house, here... (got released from work early to get a head start on this Labor Day weekend~! Thanks for all responses. Tom

Hi ndt-tom,

Check out m-audio for multi-channel input/output sound cards. The card in this link is only 10 in/10 out, but they may have higher I/O count products.

Mike

RME is a good source of audio I/O

10.2 surround is favored for live sound reinforcement though, checkout Sony soundforge 8, 9 or 10 Pro

"Wow"...! Thanks Mikerho & bwire (for 16, 17) ... as well as the others. I must've spent several hours scouring page-after-page of both "reviews" and sales ads for LITERALLY scores of cards; from dozens of Creative Labs cards (new AND defunct products), Diamond Multimedia, as well as products from Asus, Turtle Beach, the M-Audio 2496 (stereo-Only) card and others.

NONE of them had afforded the kind of INPUT capability desired...!

Now, from these responses, I have some REAL HOPE! (before post 17, I wasn't aware that Sony was even *into* the sound card arena...!?)

Now ... if I could just figure-out why I'm not working in the (same/correct/full?) editor window, here (CR4). Recently, I got frustrated with IE dragging it's feet worse and worse ... so, I experimented, first going back to FireFox; then, seeing "Safari" touted as "the fastest browser on the planet" I switched to it (it was NOT faster!); now, since last week, I'm using Opera, which seems to be slightly better than the rest ... but I'm NOT getting the "Full" text editor with toolbar above, here. Instead, I see "Formatting Tags" described below......(?) anyone know what's up?

Thanks again to all!

The reference to Sony is of audio software enabling one to optimize the product of a low latency audio processor outside the computer we refer to as an interface. Using Firewire enables one to connect direct to the motherboard.

Careful loosening of filters in your anti-virus may free IE response times without compromising the system to any meaningful extent. The IE down-line products you've mentioned will not perform near to that of IE8.

Do you have Java 6.1 or 6.7; upgrade to 6.7

Thanks once again for all the great leads, here. Thus far, it appears as though RME audio has the advantage ... and might just accomplish what I wish to do.

'Daniel' from their support group pointed me towards looking at the audio-ware from both Samplitude and Nuendo (Steinberg audio). [note: I have yet to scrutinize the Sony offerings ... LOTSA reading and learning to do...!]

Might be a number of weeks before I get it all figured out ... [I absolutely cannot afford to do this more than once!] ... but, I'll certainly post whatever becomes of this desire, whenever we do get around to upgrading things.

Thanks again to all.

"PS" ~ (Randall) ~ I downloaded Enigma, and, sure-enuf (once it overcame the initial / 1st try to log onto MS Outlook remote server), it does in fact load things faster than IE, Firefox, or even Opera ... tho' it clearly doesn't have the "exotic icing on the cake" appearance ... [who cares?!]. "Thanks!"

Check your local music store they have PC based cards and software.