Previous in Forum: Corona Losses   Next in Forum: Neutral Current transformer
Close
Close
Close
16 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Active Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10

240-V Heaters vs. 110-V Heaters

09/12/2009 2:25 AM

Hi!

Why 440 volt over 110 volt? I have to have electrical instaled for some new heaters anyhow and notice that 240 volt heaters are just about as common as the 110 volt ones. The difference in cost to install one over the other isn't signifigant so I am wondering what, if anything I gain by using 440 volt heaters. What I seem to be finding ( on the web ) is mostly work-around advice for someone with a different appliance than their wiring accommodates.

BTW.. a few more heaters may be needed eventually.

Thanks!

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK. Going under cover.
Posts: 9684
Good Answers: 468
#1

Re: Why 440 volt over 110 volt

09/12/2009 6:01 AM

What you gain is thinner, cheaper wiring.

Power is given by the current x the voltage, so if, say, you double the working voltage, you halve the current, and so don't need such thick cable.

__________________
"Love justice, you who rule the world" - Dante Alighieri
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2550
Good Answers: 103
#2

Re: Why 440 volt over 110 volt

09/12/2009 6:38 AM

Is it 440 or 240?
If it is 440V it is likely to be a 3 phase heater where as the 110 or 220 or 240 are likely single phase heaters.
It all depends on where you are and what is the grid voltage. Select the one rated for the grid voltage. If you put the higher voltage rating, you get less heat output
Power = V2/R

Other way round, you have insulation failre/fused heater coil/both

__________________
Fantastic ideas for a Fantastic World, I make the illogical logical.They put me in cars,they put me in yer tv.They put me in stereos and those little radios you stick in your ears.They even put me in watches, they have teeny gremlins for your watches
Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10
#3

Re: 240-V Heaters vs. 110-V Heaters

09/12/2009 7:38 AM

Yes, I meant 240.

Thanks for the responses. I am leaning toward the 110 since most stuff ( in my electrical world ) plugs into it.

Just from curiosity then.. Is it really reasonable that some household appliances often use 240? I am wondering if the practice of using one or two 240 volt appliances in a home really makes practical sense.

Thanks again.

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK. Going under cover.
Posts: 9684
Good Answers: 468
#4
In reply to #3

Re: 240-V Heaters vs. 110-V Heaters

09/12/2009 8:23 AM

If you have an electric oven using, say, 10kW, that's about 90 amps at 110V! The cables get horribly big, especially for domestic wiring. 40-odd amps is a lot more manageable.

__________________
"Love justice, you who rule the world" - Dante Alighieri
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2550
Good Answers: 103
#5
In reply to #3

Re: 240-V Heaters vs. 110-V Heaters

09/12/2009 9:56 AM

At this part of the world, the appliances are all rated for 230V and just checked up, the computer in front (HP) of me and all its accessories are rated for 240V.

__________________
Fantastic ideas for a Fantastic World, I make the illogical logical.They put me in cars,they put me in yer tv.They put me in stereos and those little radios you stick in your ears.They even put me in watches, they have teeny gremlins for your watches
Register to Reply
3
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15600
Good Answers: 981
#6

Re: 240-V Heaters vs. 110-V Heaters

09/12/2009 10:59 AM

Since you say that you have both 120 and 240 voltage available, I'd recommend using the higher voltage heaters just for the sake of load balancing. Since most power grids regulate their voltages so that the difference between the two split phase voltages remains a constant 240VAC, the cycling of your heaters will not significantly affect your other circuits. But a 120VAC heater load addition on one split phase line will sag that side to say 105VAC. The other split phase line will be boosted to 135VAC, 105+135=240. This is an exaggeration to make a point. But if all of your heaters sit on one split phase then this may not be an exaggeration.

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Marine Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Vancleave, Ms about 30 miles inland from Biloxi and the coast
Posts: 3197
Good Answers: 106
#7

Re: 240-V Heaters vs. 110-V Heaters

09/12/2009 1:44 PM

What JohnDG and redfred said is good advice.

__________________
Mr.Ron from South Ms.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Piney Flats, Tennessee
Posts: 1740
Good Answers: 23
#8

Re: 240-V Heaters vs. 110-V Heaters

09/12/2009 11:03 PM

Some people use the 110v for personal heaters but eldery people with poor blood flow often keep it too close and can begin baking their legs before they realize how hot their skin has gotten, this can be very harmful and make their blood flow problems even worse. 220v will heat, at great expense, 2 average size rooms .

__________________
If you never do anything you never have problems.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 158
Good Answers: 1
#14
In reply to #8

Re: 240-V Heaters vs. 110-V Heaters

09/13/2009 11:33 AM

No, the heat output is determined by application and type, expressed in KW, not strictly voltage dependant!

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Piney Flats, Tennessee
Posts: 1740
Good Answers: 23
#9

Re: 240-V Heaters vs. 110-V Heaters

09/12/2009 11:05 PM

Oh, do not trust those thermostates on the 110 or 220 heater. If you do keep the setting really low and away from curtains and furniture.

__________________
If you never do anything you never have problems.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Member

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 9
Good Answers: 1
#10

Re: 240-V Heaters vs. 110-V Heaters

09/13/2009 1:31 AM

Hello

I'm assuming that their heaters are 1000 Watts. The current required by them would be:

1000/440 = 2.27 Amps. AWG cable required Cal. 14.
1000/110 = 9.09 Amps. AWG cable required Cal. 10.

BTU's are the same for any selection.

At your service.

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Adirondacks of NYS
Posts: 136
Good Answers: 7
#11

Re: 240-V Heaters vs. 110-V Heaters

09/13/2009 8:18 AM

The wiring and load balancing are both great reasons to use 240 volt heaters. Another great incentive is your checkbook balance. If you have a say 3 KW heater running at home and nothing else drawing power, you will be paying for 3 KW of power on 240 volts and 6 KW of power at 240 volts even though you are only using 6 KW on 120 volts and getting the same heat output.

In this area, the power suppliers charge you for an unbalanced load as if you are using the power. After all, they cannot generate unbalanced power, so someone (you) will have to pay for what is not used. Ideally, the load should be so well balanced, no current will be flowing to the pole transformer on the neutral wire. It pays to make all the larger loads run on 240 volts.

__________________
If I hear hoofbeats, why don't I ever think a Zebra might be around?
Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: California, USA, where the Godless live next door to God.
Posts: 4665
Good Answers: 804
#15
In reply to #11

Re: 240-V Heaters vs. 110-V Heaters

10/16/2009 8:29 PM

You are incorrect on this. 3kW is 3kW, the voltage is irrelevant.

__________________
** All I every really wanted to be, was... A LUMBERJACK!.**
Register to Reply
2
Anonymous Poster
#12

Re: 240-V Heaters vs. 110-V Heaters

09/13/2009 10:05 AM

Let's keep it simple...(sorry it takes up more than 2 lines of text to reply ) This reply is intended to summarize it all.

1. Select your heater capacity based on heat output first (in kW or Btu/h). You need to calculate how much heat you need in the particular space you are trying to heat. This has NOTHING to do with the voltage - it has to do with:

a)the desired temperature of the room, and the outdoor temperatures on the "design day", the coldest outside temperature you would expect (Refer to Building Codes, ASHRAE, Weather data, a local contractor or supplier),

b) the quality of construction of the room (ie how well insulated the room is, and how much air leakage there is into/out of the room)

c) and how large the room is (area of exterior walls, area of floors above unheated spaces, areas of windows, doors and skylights)

2. Check available voltages at your site (115 v, 120 V, 208 V, 240 V, etc...)

3. Don't forget - you are installing the heater for comfort, therefore the heat output is the primary consideration!

4. Typically you should select a hard wired heater with highest practical voltage at your location. Depending on the actual current drawn by the heater, this may allow for smaller wire and breaker sizes, which may be less expensive and easier to install. If you have several heaters installed, try to balance the loads as much as possible to minimize system imbalances (see previous responses).

5. For residential buildings (and other smaller buildings) you will likely pay the same amount to heat the space at any voltage.

6. In larger buildings where you may have "demand charges" the same applies - you pay for the energy (heat) you use (kWh), and the associated demand (kW). No power factors penalties apply since electric heaters are resistance devices (primarily) (power factor = 1 and kW~kVa in this case). If power factor charges apply, your PF penalty cost may actually be lower because of the heaters helping correct for other low PF devices, but your energy and demand charges would still increase.

7. Note that heater "temperatures" are a function of the design of the heater element and of the cabinet/enclosure. For residential, especially with seniors or children, and where curtains or other combustibles may be present, consider "low Watt density" which gives you less heat per unit area or length of heater, and lower air and heater surface temperatures (these are also slightly bigger, longer units). Maintain clearances recomended by the manufacturer in all cases!

8. Splurge and spend some money on a good quality low voltage programmable thermostat compatible with your heaters, and program it to 'set - back" (lower) the thermostat setting when you don't need as much heat (night time, while you are at work, etc..) THIS WILL SAVE ENERGY, SAVE MONEY, REDUCE greenhouse gases and pollution (where electricity is provided by coal/gas/oil/hydro plants). Your investment in a good thermostat will pay for itself in very little time (depending on how cold it is where you live)

9. Avoid "plug-in" or "portable" heaters if at all possible! Too many risks due to tripping, overheating cords and circuits, risk of tipping over the heaters etc...

Good Luck

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Anonymous Poster
#16
In reply to #12

Re: 240-V Heaters vs. 110-V Heaters

10/17/2009 6:22 AM

The BEST response to any question on this site I've ever read! (see my #8 comment which also states your 1st point). I particullarly like the ASRAE reference; too many ' experts' forget this as well as code. What do you do for a living (if I may ask)?

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 158
Good Answers: 1
#13

Re: 240-V Heaters vs. 110-V Heaters

09/13/2009 11:29 AM

The installation cost CAN BE very different - smaller wire size for higher voltages; also the efficiency is improved in a purely resistive circuit such as an electric resistive heater.

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 16 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (2); dadw5boys (2); DRFREON (2); JohnDG (2); JRaef (1); MrCarlos (1); redfred (1); ronseto (1); Sayjak (1); sb (2); Sparkchaser (1)

Previous in Forum: Corona Losses   Next in Forum: Neutral Current transformer

Advertisement