Is This Product a Scam?

I wouldn't call it a scam as much as a waste of your time. Spending that much money on something like that is a waste.

WIKIPEDIA: Power Factor:

Anything that has a low power factor (think capacitive or inductive circuits, example: electric motors) has you paying more than a circuit with a high power factor. The power factor is the ratio between real power and apparent power. Circuits with more apparent power have a lower power factor. When you get your bill from the electric company, you are paying for both real power and apparent power. This is unfortunate, because with a simple capacitor or inductor, you can just be paying for real power and see a real reduction in the bill.

Power factor correction for motors or devices that need to be specifically calculated should be left to electrical engineers that will give you a hand. tcmtech is right that there are MUCH cheaper alternatives to saving power than what that website is offering.

...Oh! And don't go into an electronic store without someone knowledgeable and trustworthy who can point you in the right direction. Store personnel will have you leaving with something more expensive than you need, they are trained to do so. Good luck!

Emjay - thanks for the heads-up on long, lightly-loaded lines going lead. I'd never heard of this, but it does make sense.

Cheers!
DZ

Exactly, it will never pay for itself.

Direct from the company's website

"The KEC units are designed specifically for motor run applications."

As most of the residential load is resistive by nature there is very little benefit, certainly not enough to ever pay for the $400 unit in the first place over the units life.

Don't waste your money on it for your home.

If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is.

Some good advice was given and I've learned something. Thanks for sharing.

http://reversephonelookupfree.com/

These things play on the ignorance of folks who think motors are completely inductive. An unloaded motor's cost to operate can be lowered by adding a capacitor, but why run an unloaded motor if you don't have a huge production line. When I turn on my table saw, the motor is pretty inductive for about 10 seconds till I run a 2" piece of wet oak through, and then the motor starts to look pretty resistive. When I finish cutting, and the motor is back to mostly inductive, I turn it off. How long would it take me to pay for this thing? And why is it so expensive?

For me, I would like to advice not to buy these devices. I have a unit in my home and it does not really help you to save on your electrical bill. It just a capacitor, that had been calculated at certain load to improved your power factor at your home. Anything that has a low power factor, you will be paying more for the bill. Power factor correction for your house need to be specifically calculated base on each individual equipments.

If you use less load in your house, your electricity will be charging your capacitor instead of helping you to save energy it waste more energy. I have done some test in my house and found that during my normal power consumption, with the refrigerate in standby stage, the current is higher about 0.5 Amps or 120 watt higher. This means that I will be wasting about 120 watt/hr

Only with the refrigerate running (Compressor running), the unit able to help you to save about 1.2 Amp or 288 watt. If you use more load, the unit not able to save any energy.

See my above post. You make the error of measuring current alone, which is easy. A watthour meter is needed as it ignores reactive current exactly the same way the energy (kilowatt hour meter) meter does. Watthour meters have a voltage coil at 90 degrees to the current coil.

Not an obvious scam because it IS a power factor correction device. Just not really practical for home use. As others have said, it will never pay for itself in savings unless you have large inductive loads and your utility is hitting you with heavy PF penalties. Possible I guess, but I've never seen it happen in a residential setting.

Commercial versions usually have a bank of capacitors which are automatically switched in/out to maintain a near unity PF with varying loads. If you just connect a large capacitor to your panel, it will draw reactive current ALL THE TIME, even when all the motors are off. Not really a good solution if that is all that comes in their $400 box.

If the $400 device they are selling contains a microprocessor to analyze and correct PF on a real time basis by switching several capacitors in/out of service, it is a slick piece of engineering! Still not worth the cost for home use.

It's a scam (contextually speaking).

Assuming that the thing works, it won't save you a PENNY if it's used at home. The only users who MIGHT benefit from this are industrial ones, period. (I'm an electrical engineer, and power-factor correction is partof what I do).

If I were you, I'd report these guys. If the guys at the show weren't Four Leaf Energy but dealers or resellers instead, call Four Leaf. If they ARE Four Leaf (and who knows ... they may only be pretending to be).

OK, scratch that ... I've just read on their 'About Us' page on their website that they're women- and minority-owned and that they have these on their homes and it saves them tons of money. Gilding the lily is often associated with scamming.

Tell you what ... I'm in Canada, but I ride a high horse when it comes to this kind of thing. I'll try to find the State agency that handles consumer fraud in Pennsylvania and I'll put the agency on these bozos' trail.

Mike ... If the PA agency can't do anything because I'm Canadian or because I haven't witnessed their sales pitch or been suckered into buying a unit, are you willing to carry on where I leave off? I'm always happy to do this kind of thing, but I might not be able to do it alone.

Cheers!

DZ

P.S. It gets better ... The Certifications web page says that it's NASA-tested.

The Certifications web page says that it's NASA-tested.

The basic circuit was not only NASA tested but NASA developed, if I recall (back in the 1970's). The circuit "works" but does nothing useful in a home environment, for reasons you and others have explained.

Hi, Blink.

Yes, it was developed by some institute or other by some fellow named Nola (hence it often being called 'Nola technology'). The concept's been taken up by PEC (Power Equipment Corp.) somewhere on the US West Coast; and it's been GREATLY enhanced by a UK firm named Somar (their product's called Somar Integra), which is used on AC induction motors.

Cheers!
DZ

DZ, Thank you but I will handle the complaints. I'm the one they were trying to rob. I am trying to get in touch with the Valley Forge Convention Center manager to lodge a complaint and maybe get them removed from the show. I am also filing a complaint with the Pennsylvania Consumer Protection Agency. Hopefully something will come of it. I wonder how many people they've scammed. Thanks again for your help. Mike

Hi, Mike.

Excellent! This kind of scammer deserves a good stpomin on, as far as I'm concerned.

Re. Consumer Protection ... if it's anything like what we have here up in Canada's Province of Quebec, they won't be able to help you. For one thing, their mission may be to get you your money back if something doesn't work as advertized, or to enforce your legal guarantees, etc.

This thing is more of a fraudulent representation thing, so you may want to call a commercial-fraud agency for this. Another possibility would be to call police, but I'd go the commercial-fraud route to start. That may be federal or that may be State, but there's one out there somewhere.

Good luck! And keep us posted on what happens.

DZ

DZ, I don't know what or where a commercial fraud agency is. Mike

Hi again, Mike.

And hhhmm .. I've just been to the PA Attorney General's website. The Consumer Protection Agency is there under 'Consumers', but it seems to say that its mission is to mediate between consumers and sellers, so they won't help much. You could give them a try, though .. they might point you in the right direction. Otherwise, call the Attorney General's main line.

A likelier possibility: the FBI! They've got an Internet fraud section:

http://www.fbi.gov/majcases/fraud/internetschemes.htm#busfraud

That section says that it's focussed on credit-card scams, Nigerian fraud letters, etc., but the fact that Four Leaf is announcing its product AND ITS APPLICATION FOR HOMES makes it 'wire fraud', in my eyes. That's a federal offense ... perhaps it has to be inter-State to be federal, but its being on the Internet makes it so.

To lodge a complaint with the FBI, go to its Internet Crime Complaint Center:

http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx

I'd start with the FBI. The Attorney General is more of a getting your money back or getting your warranties enforced kind of thing rather than a fraudulent business one.

Cheers! And do let us know what's happening as things develop. This is an educational thing for us in how to fight consumer fraud. I've already made a citizen's arrest and called the cops on guys selling 'stolen' stereo equipment out the back of their van, etc., and I'm interested in knowing how this kind of thing works out.

DZ

P.S. This must be a first for CR4 ... sending the US Feds in, hahahaha. No mercy to scamsters!

they tried to sell me one at the philly show this past weekend 1-15-11 thats why i am reading this post. they definitely sold it to me for a home use to be mounted next to the main box and sized based on your amp service size.

fourtunantly i was running late and live near the company and could stop in and pick one up later for the "show price" which is 100 cheaper so i did not buy one yet.

it sounds like i wont be buying one now either.

The product is real. The application for homes is not. Without going into the math, they describe a ciruit which reduces reactive power. Unless your home has several large motors (>10 hp), you are not going to have enough reactive power to justify the expense.

SCAM

Here are test results of a similar device. The device technically "works" to solve a "problem" that does not exist in homes. If you have very large number of unloaded motors running in your home (let's say if you had 50 table saws and 50 drill presses, and left them running all the time, but did no actual work with them) then perhaps this device would pay for itself in some number of years.

Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to provide me with responses on my question. I am filing a complaint with the Pennsylvania Consumer Protection Agency regarding this fraudulent product. Maybe a few people will be saved from being scammed by these people. Thanks again for your help. Mike

Hold on....... I don't think it is a fraudulent product. It probably does correct PF like any capacitance would do put on your line. But as others have pointed out if you don't have a lot of VAR loads, it's pointless, and if your utility company doesn't bill you in VARs it is double pointless. So careful with the use of "fraudulent" as a word and soften it a bit with "Misleading without full disclosure of average actual benifit"... but first, go look at the weasel worded fine print which might point out all that you just learned. I would bet they have most of this covered in some fine print to avoid legal action.

Definitely a scam. If the device was selling for $29.95 in a TV infomercial, a lot of people would buy it because 99.99% of the population doesn't even know what PF is. Because they don't know, they assume the guy selling the device is an expert. People are just plain gullible. They would probably have more success selling at $29.95 than $400. At any price, it's still a scam.

mikesoneill:

Simply put, it is a scam. I was in Metering for 23 years, and any capacitor will NOT save you energy/money on a residential meter because it measures real energy, or "Kilo-Watt Hours". You will use the same amount of KWhrs for a load with or without a capacitor.

Capacitors will only help you if you had a kVA (or a kVAR) Demand meter. But, remember, even after adding capaitor banks, you will probably pay the previous high kVA Peak Demand for a year before you will notice any money savings.