Dropped Balls

Before I answer, is this a homework question (because it really sounds like one)?

What size are the balls?

for any size(mass) that is >0, Magnetic and gravitational effect works .

No.

Boy, you are feeling frisky today!

Once the ball has rotated as you describe, the S pole will be slightly more strongly attracted than the N pole is repelled (since the N is farther away), so it should fall slightly faster. I have made NO calculations to determine how much faster, but I suspect that it would take very sensitive measurements to detect the change.

ok it doesn't answer the question, but that's not the point of this forum sometimes.

it's more of a source of tangents

http://sci-toys.com/scitoys/scitoys/magnets/ring_launcher/ring_launcher.html

I found this after looking at the thread and not because of it.

Gravity and magnets in the one article; pretty close.

I know what somebody is getting for christmas... I just hope that somebody is me!

I suppose if you dropped the ball a million times there might be a nano amount of time difference between the fastest and the slowest times, but it would be so very small. Given the random probability of the ball rotating and the poles of attraction lining up more one way than the other you could get some minor deviations. But for all intensive purposes the answer would be no!

Where is the moon at the time of the drop. As we know because of why there are high and low tides, the moon has gravitational pull on an object which will vary in relationship to the poles, equator, and what altitude at which the ball is dropped from. As we also know from the toilet flushing effect, the ball will try to rotate clockwise or counterclockwise depending on which hemisphere the drop is made. Just how did you make this "round magnet" in the first place? Was it first a magnetized square or rectangle and then shaped into a ball? Or do you have some way of "perfectly" magetizing something round so that the magnetic center is also the physical center? Careful now for that might approach a perpetual device, and we all know our wives won't let us bring that thing home. Another thought has to do with some locations on earth that have significant iron ore deposits that easily disturb any compass from indcating magnetic north (as opposed to "true north"). I hope this helps. Did we just confuse gravity with magnetism? Do I weigh more at the poles than I do at the equator? Weight does equal the effect of gravity therefore speed if dropped right? Or am I magetically held down on this planet.

Do I weigh more at the poles than I do at the equator?

Yes, for two reasons: 1. You are closer to the center of mass due to the slight flattening at the poles, and 2. the centrifugal effect of the Earth's rotation. If I am ever on the Worlds Greatest Loser, I want to be weighed in at the North Pole with the final weight taken at the top of Mt. Everest. I need all the help I can get.

"I need all the help I can get." Consider Mount Kilimanjaro.

My friend be confirm that the gravity doesnt have magnet poles across the earth.Ovbiously earth has two poles north and south.But these poles dont have enough power to attract or repulse any pullable body.Just by compass we can define poles of earth , thats all.If it has powerful magnetism then many things even human being holding opposite poles magnet will float in atmosphere and make another world there.

So in my reading the magnet ball will drop as normal balls.

Suggest you to think creative ones which are useful.

Best wishes

If the magnetic field of the earth is greater where the balls landed than where they were released, the answer is yes. However, that would have to be way high up to make a perceptible difference.

If we were to hold a basketball game at the north magnetic pole, and dribble the ball, and the ball were to contain a magnet, the ball would always be turning at the NS rotated to orient the ball with magnetic fiels in concert with the up and down motion. Would the ball oscillate position or rotate? Hmmmm.

The ball would be in damped oscillation as it aligned with the pole in orientation, but in position it just falls toward the ground faster. You might get some odd dribbles, as the magnetic field would affect rotation induce by the hand or the ground, resulting in some odd 'english'.

The magnetized steel ball (a hard shape to make a magnet) will, like the earth, have magnetic poles, and will orient itself to the earth's field. This alone does not make any significant difference.

At the equator, 1) any falling steel ball is cutting many magnetic lens of force, so it seems like they should induce current in the interior, heating it, doing work and slowing the fall. The magnitized ball should have very slightly less current, as the existing magnetism puts the flux in a less freindly part of the hysterisis curve, nearer to saturation. 2) The magnetic poles cancel out in terms of attracting the magnetized ball, pulling it both North and South equally. For simplicity, we are talking about a magnetic equator or an earth whose magnetic and rotational poles are aligned.

At the magnetic pole, 3) the magnetic attraction on the magnetized ball will accelerate the fall more than gravity and more than an unmagnetized ball.

everyone seems to have been thrown-off by this question....

i will argue that if the magnetization is very strong, and the height from which the balls are dropped is extremely high, a substancial difference in fall rates between the magnetized and non-magnetized balls will develop consistently. .....

The variation in fall rates should also exhibit differences between data taken near the equator and data take at the poles...

but if you think the variations in fall rates occur due to the strength or allignment on the Earths magnetic field, or gravity... you were tricked by the question.

the dominating factor will be the conductivity of the atmosphere through which the balls fall.

this problem is easier to understand,when you remember LENZ LAW.... which means the non-magnetized ball will fall more rapidly than the magnetized ball.

higher conductivityin the atmoshpere, and the greater altitude(and resulting higher velocity..... Results in a more pronounced magnetized ball lagtime will be.

benbenben

The OP states that the observer is standing. I infer this to mean that the drop distance is a meter or two - the height of the 'hands' from which the balls are dropped. Obviously (or maybe not), The dropping/timing mechanism is going to have to be a whole lot more precise than a pair of hands and a pair of eyes, to detect a difference in velocity or time between the magnetized and non-magnetized balls.

At the altitudes that a person can stand to do the observation, the conductivity of the atmosphere is essentially zero, unless a thunderstorm happens to be passing over.

I assume you are referring to the magnetism of the magnetized ball generating currents in the atmosphere. Since the conductivity of the atmosphere is essentially zero, the magnitude of those currents will be minuscule. Air friction will have a significantly larger effect!

Not to mention that the line of force from the balls poles will be very concentrated near the ball, which is true of the earth, too, but realatively, and the earth is much bigger, relatively. When there are no appreciable nearby consuctive paths to induce current in, the is no appreciable current to generate a response field that would slow it.

At the poles, the lines of magnetiic force are most dense, so more of them interact with the magnetized ball.

Measurement is not an available issue, faster is faster, even if one ball arrives a silly picosecond sooner.

i was not suggesting the effect would be greater than effect from drag created in the air. i was not suggesting the effect would be anything other than very small.

..but the question did not ask if there would be a 'large difference' it only enquired 'faster' (or slower, i assumed).

so while the atmoshpere does have very low electrical conduictivity, it does have some... and this increases with various conditions, such as increased humidity.

so while the currents produced would be small, these currents would still exist.

and since the shape of the objects (magnetized and unmagnetized), as well as the density, and mass are the same, the aerodynamic drag should be the same, and the Lenz effect although small should be the major difference!..

so while the effect is small, one cannot reasonably conclude that it does not exist, even if one were to overlook the possibility upon initial review..

benbenben

The magnetic falling ball induces just a little current in the air and ground at all locations, give or take local conductivity, but that effect seems much smaller than the effect of magnetic attraction, we we have all seen in compass needles, whereas it is hard to even imagine a way to sense the current of the falling magnet without changing the local conductivity.

Further, the less conductivity, the less current and the less retardation of the fall.

However, it can be argued that only at or near the magnetic equator, where the magnetic attraction is cancelled out or very small, this might make the magnetized ball slower. I think there is still some small magnetic attraction, even at the magnetic equator, so it is a battle of fairy feathers until someone can pump up some rational numbers.

actually, the op does not definitively state that the observer is standing at the poles or at the equator.

The op only further enquired if it would make a difference if 'you' were standing at the equator at a pole. Perhaps the op has some reason to believe you are so portly and massive as to garner your own gravitational field, or perhaps the op believes you so dense that you are highly likely to be made of some ferrous metal, exhibiting ferromagnetic properties worth noting.

Even if it is the ops intention to place you at a pole or equator, as an observer, and the problem politely overlooks any consideration of your gravitational pull or ferromagnetic properties.....this still has in no way placed limitations on the height from which the ball is dropped.

you are the observer, just sit your mass right there and observe, no one said you get to drop and observe, greedy.

another condition that has been left open to interpretation (aside from drop height and your mass) is the strength of the magnetization.

i continue to offer the argument that if the magnetization were strong enough and the speed great enough (due to height from which dropped) the magnetized ball would arrive significantly later than the non magnetized ball..

consider such things as 'northern lights' and 'increased rates of battery leakage in high humidity' before fully dscounting this effect.

benbenben

Feel free to get some numbers for the conductivity of normal atmosphere at 90% humidity and a high average atmospheric pressure with a little air pollution, and assume the normal saturation magnetization of a common steel on a ball of, say, 2 inches in diameter.

The reading on my ohm meter never budges until I put something between the tips, but you might try using a sensitive meter and measuring between two large, close spaced, parallel metal plates.

The fact that you can immediately see the magnetic field effect by hanging your magnet on a string, but need experimental apparatus to even measure some current flow in air, suggests that magnetic forces need to be cancelled out before the Lenz induction current has significant effect.

Hey Ben³,

I'm giving you a GA because given the freedom of variables in the OP the best answer would seem to be 'possibly, but probably not enough that we could measure it.' and everyone seems to be stuck on the 'you can't measure the difference' nonsense. Just because we can't measure it doesn't mean it doesn't exist... take dark energy for instance, it existed before we could detect it, before we could concieve of it, and yet this seemingly immeasurable substance was having a dramatic effect on the motion of the universe since 'The Beginning'.

Yes, perhaps the difference is so small it would be easier to calculate the entirety of Pi than the difference in fall rates, but that is still a difference.

thank you Hairlesssimian! your thoughtful comments are appreciated. it is nice to see someone who stands up for what is valid, even if unpopular.

on another subject, i wonder what you think of the aquatic ape theroy, which fell out of favor mid-last century, but seems to be making a comeback? i listened to a lecutre by an octogenarian on this subject on www.TED.com (ted is any awesome resource if you havent yet had the opportunity to review it.

benbenben

If only I had gills like my uncle Pongping...

Yes, The magnetized ball would fall faster, but probably not much. It should fall faster at the north pole because that's where most of the lodestone is.

Humm. This topic reminds me of an old AD/DC song.

Can you guess!

Must be "Big Balls"

would it make a difference ? It depends upon where you're standing.

Where can I get a magnetized steel ball? And how was it manufactured? And for what purpose?