Previous in Forum: markov count and rainflow count   Next in Forum: Telemetry
Close
Close
Close
8 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Active Contributor

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 19

Liquid Nitrogen Gasification System Operation

10/07/2009 7:15 AM

Hello Sirs,

Now I am working on the nitrogen generation system modification. Currently plant has a back-up for that system - a liquefied nitrogen vessel with vaporizer, which is being operated manually. Our client asked us to do some modification on that system to do it automatically operated.

If you have any experience in the such type design could you please put your comments?

Thanks in advance.

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#1

Re: Liquid Nitrogen Gasification System Operation

10/07/2009 9:34 AM

Please describe what the end Client wants to achieve.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 19
#3
In reply to #1

Re: Liquid Nitrogen Gasification System Operation

10/08/2009 7:32 AM

PWSlack

Now the liquified nitrogen storage is connected to vaporizer and being operated manually. Flow is being controlled by valve (one of DBB valves) located just downstream of the liquified storage and before vaporizer.
We are going to put a control valve downstream of vaporiser. This control valve will be activated as pressure in the main nitrogen supply system is below the normal operation pressure.
Could you please help me to find if it is any safety related issue associated with our modification?

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#8
In reply to #3

Re: Liquid Nitrogen Gasification System Operation

10/09/2009 6:39 AM

There is no issue with substituting a self-acting valve instead of the manual one, provided all pressure and temperature criteria have been met. The change, though, ought really to pass through a formal HazOp Study at the plant in question.

Can the nitrogen supplier offer advice, perhaps?

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 71
Good Answers: 4
#2

Re: Liquid Nitrogen Gasification System Operation

10/08/2009 7:27 AM

Please provide more detailed information about the nitrogen generation system and the controls currently used.

As far as I understand your question you have actually 2 systems:
1: "Normal operation" Nitrogen generation system (pressure swing adsorption??)
2: Back-up system consisting of liquefied Nitrogen tank plus vaporiser (manually operated)

Now my more specific questions:
a) For which purpose is the Nitrogen being used?
b) How is the malfunction of the "normal" system detected?
c) Are there "typical" malfunctions which require the operation of the back-up system?
d) How long is the maximum tolerable lag between failure detection in the "normal" system and the start-up of the back-up system?

Regards nudnik

Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 19
#4
In reply to #2

Re: Liquid Nitrogen Gasification System Operation

10/08/2009 7:35 AM

Nudnik,

Currently it is membrane type unit.

This just plant header - purging, blanketing and etc.

Sometimes nitrogen unit is out of service because of high oxygen content in the supplied nitrogen.

lag is unpredictable and can be enough long - even 14 shift or longer.

Thanks.

Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 71
Good Answers: 4
#5

Re: Liquid Nitrogen Gasification System Operation

10/08/2009 7:51 AM

OK, so it sounds as nitrogen availability is not highly safety critical.

I suggest the following schematic:

Place an oxygen sensor in the gas line downstream of the membrane unit (zircon dioxide sensor!). Connect the output signal of the oxygen sensor to a control unit. If O2 threshold level is exceeded, the controls should activate a valve in the supply line between the nitrogen vaporiser and your nitrogen supply line with the pressure regulator. Install a correctly dimensioned pressure relief valve between the vaporiser and the valve operated by the controls so that potentially hazordous pressure build-up is limited in the case that the valve fails to open.

Please: Observe your local saftety codes!! They might require additional saety features!

Regards nudnik

Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#6

Re: Liquid Nitrogen Gasification System Operation

10/08/2009 7:55 AM

What are the requirments as far as oxygen ppm for the nitrogen and what volume do they need? The normal level of oxygen for cyrogenic system is approaching 1 ppm or less. However there are some systems that can supply 50 ppm or less that only use filtering system. Liquid system = 99.999 % pure, filtered system = 99.995 % pure.

Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#7

Re: Liquid Nitrogen Gasification System Operation

10/08/2009 11:54 AM

You will need a process control loop that continuously monitors the variable that has been chosen as the control (pressure) against the set-point (control valve position) and when necessary signals the valve to close (pressure has dropped below the set-point).

The loop must be tuned to acheive the desired results. There will be the ability to select "manual" mode in which case you are back to what you have now.

The safety issue is going to be when oxygen in the liquid also boils off. Your equipment will have to be explosion proof unless the nitrogen is pure.

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 8 comments
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (2); enguest (2); nudnik (2); PWSlack (2)

Previous in Forum: markov count and rainflow count   Next in Forum: Telemetry

Advertisement