Cleantech: Fact or Fiction?

Not quite sure what you're getting at. One article you link to hints that the opportunities in renewable energy and cleantech are staggering. Another one that you link to reports on the August closure of a Vestas wind turbine factory. Unfortunate, that, but I consider that just a blip on the alternative energy radar screen.

Better to look here and here.

First, I want to say my response #3 was directed at your query.

I looked at both your links but unfortunately they're vague when it comes to offer a real solution in 'cleantech' or 'going green.'

It is more likely that if they start looking for investors, among st ordinary people, it only means one thing 'Rip-Off' on a grand scale.

It seems that BP for example, with enough financial back-ups, is still lot more cautious about this than say 10+ years ago when they started their 'going solar' programs.

Big companies took serious efforts to snatch every opportunity to themselves, as far back as the 90s, to create monopoly, like in many areas, but to no avail.

This is now could lead to create an industry of sharks who will be out there looking for small investors to be coaxed out of their money in the name of 'cleantech.'

Ofcourse, this could turn out to be quite different but, having observed the development in solar-power cells they're just simply not up there yet to conquer.

Just like Toyota made a statement recently that experimenting with electric cars is a futile effort as the current battery technology isn't developed enough yet, and it is very true.

I do not try to disappoint but these are facts an they cannot and should not be buried for the shake of 'corporate sharks' if you know what I mean.

And cleantech is on track to be the dominant force in venture capital investments over the next few years, supplanting biotechnology and software. Venture capitalists have poured $8.7 billion into energy-related startups in the U.S. since 2006.

That pales in comparison with the dot-com boom, when venture cash sometimes topped $10 billion in a single quarter.

Ya know, the statement above says a lot. The "dot-com boom" is one of the reasons that the USA has fallen so far behind in manufacturing and says a lot about a shift in the formerly competitive culture in the US. "Dot-coms" don't produce a damn thing except advertising, spam, and open doors to internet scam artists. Yet, investors are still coming out of the woodwork. Amazing, really.

I can only imagine that "Cleantech" will be loaded down with consultants who will want to charge customers a small fortune to tell them how to save the amount they pay them in the first year, and after that, the savings stay in the bank. Reminds me of TQM and other flash-in-the-pan management philosophies that consultants made millions on in the 90's.

I'm glad I'm near retirement. Then I'll jump on that up-and-coming gravy train and make the fortune I failed to make when I worked for a living.

In 2008 the Vestas' projects were highly regarded and praised as a real alternative to clean renewable energy source and therefore, it is gonna be worth every penny invested in it, until recession came about and then it took a dive, like everything else, despite it's cleanliness.

As it turned out it is not all eco-friendly (killing birds and upsetting habitats of wild life), its energy production is subject to wind speed and has high maintenance costs, to name a few drawbacks of it. When recession came the reduction in Vestas' wind turbine production has slowed down despite our struggling energy resources.

If an energy source is not only clean but free then demand for it should flare up instead of decline in tough financial times we live in.

We had many earlier discussions on CR4 about the production process of electric solar panels like, are they eco-friendly to manufacture and are they worth to consider as a viable source of energy to invest in as opposed to wind power?

Are you getting at my point?

Honored colleague,

On 20th August started working one Solar plant in Texas, that should be able to work 24/7, because it uses molten salt to store energy harvested from Sun, but seeing how inefficient is their design, using 90 acres of land for mere 5 MWh capacity, I would not be surprised that it cannot do it.....

In Spain is being built another similar Power Plant that would be finalized 2011, with much greater capacity, also using reservoir with molten salt to store energy.

Both has same flaw in design, so they are or would be losing energy almost as fast as it is being harvested, because this reservoir is situated on top of a high tower, and heated from outside, so natural hot air circulation would tend to cool them fast.

So, with more efficient and rational design and bigger salt reservoir, all harvested heat can be used during 24 hours, even trough few cloudy days, or >>On Demand<< so plant could deliver electricity in peak demand time, when it is paid more per KWh.

We say in Croatia: >>Turn your tongue 10 times in your mouth and think hard before you say anything, and then it is better for you to keep silent. People may think you are stupid because you say nothing, but if you actually say something stupid, then they would be quite sure it is a fact....<<.

I never say something I cannot prove, and work on prototype, or rather, pilot Plant would be started as soon as I found investor. For now, I have only applied for Patents, and am working on presentation I would show to potential investors. Small model has been built and it is working in case of Windpower station, for new kind of turbine, and my Solar would use old and proven, long time in use parts, that just nobody has think of using together for this purpose, or not in that particular way as I would use them. That being so, kindly tell me, what is there to fail producing results?

It is known that Sun provide 1KW of energy per m2 as heat, at least 8 hours per day if weather is fair, so from this, and efficiency of energy conversion technology that would produce electricity, it is easy to calculate how big Solar concentrator unit should be, and total energy stored in molten salt should suffice to be used 24 hours or more, if we want to have reserve for few cloudy days, and we intend to produce 1 MWh every hour. I hope you agree that it is better that generator do NOT work with full capacity all the time, at least from technical aspect of its use, because economy would want to use it 100% to get highest possible ROI, and because produced electricity can be sold at premium price if Plant can deliver it >>On Demand<<, it is better to have bigger capacity generator installed, right?

Then also, since generator and steam boiler unit are most expensive parts, while Solar concentrator units are relatively cheap, specially if mass produced, then it could be three, nine or more concentrators storing captured heat in SAME molten salt reservoir, whose cost is not linearly higher with enlarged capacity, but is getting smaller per m3, just some more building material has to be used....

In such case there could be just one high capacity generator and steam production unit installed, and its cost is also not linearly greater with greater capacity, thus bringing cost of whole plant still further down.

I would rather have three generators working at 2/3 capacity, so in case of failure of one unit, remaining two can use its full capacity and thus produce same quantity of electricity without interruption, and since reservoir is same, no energy harvested would be lost. At same time such configuration could give 1/3 capacity more during peak demand, thus more than refunding time when full capacity is not in use.

So, dear sceptic colleague who has already predicted me a failure before, I hope this short explanation would help You to change Your opinion about my expertise and inventiveness :-))

I cannot reveal details until production start and I could sell Production Licenses to countries that should be most interested in such Power Stations, as I would not risk that my ideas would be stolen. I believe that enabling people of the World to produce electricity for 1 cent per KWh or 10 Euro per MWh (and later for 10$ or less) should be help enough, and my PS installations would be affordable for anybody, so many captive plants can be built, which would produce greatest savings on energy cost. Therefore, price of electricity must fall in time at least in half, and also price of fossil fuels and earth gas, since they would be in less demand.

I hope this would help everybody to live better and in cleaner air, while even Global Warming process can be stopped, so great calamities can be avoided.

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I am sorry if really everyone is bored to death by my postings, but I hope it is case isolated to few, and not a pandemonium on CR4........

Since I succeeded to get 7 GAs so far, I have feeling that some colleagues realize that I am not just saying first thing that cross my mind, and that my postings have some value after all..........

You are special case anyhow, just like one person that spitted even on greatest of inventors, Engineer Nikola Tesla, accusing him to have stolen his inventions from someone else, and surely they granted him 900+ Patents because he was so successful thief, even if nobody has claimed that there was any of such inventions invented before........

I am just sorry that I did not recognize it is You who started this thread, as I would not post anything here then, but I have too many things on my mind at present, so I profoundly apologize.........

Regards from Croatia, homeland of one of greatest inventors, Engineer Nikola Tesla!

Marijan Pollak, IT SA/SE 1st. Class, Instructor and Team Leader (retired)

Yeah, you damn right I did make once a less than favourite comment about Tesla who despite his numerous patent applications he died penniless because when he received a large sum of money later he thoughtlessly wasted it on his other poorly conceived ideas.

Remember, Tesla lost to people like JP Morgan and other 'Corporate Sharks' because he turned out to be a weak-link in many of his concepts of ideas and I'm afraid you're not better either, are you?

Just because I compared your 7/24 solar power generator concept as 'not even god could easily match it' I well and truly meant it.

A lot of times good and successfully designers borrow some of their best concepts, freely I might add, from nature. If you found this insulting then you have a problem.

I do not know how you derive your ideas, other than read some vague reports here and there, however, due to lack of prototypes your reasonings are useless.

Finally, how do you expect to find investors when you have already demonstrated over nd over your short temper who cannot handle any sort of criticism or objection?

Investors would do nothing but that (criticize) even if you have a working prototype.

Honoured colleague,

I see You are completely uninformed about Tesla and his work, so there is no use to discuss about it with you.....

Tesla forgave Mr. Westinghouse obligation to pay him 7 million US $, when Mr. Westinghouse was in tight spot and has to pay his suppliers, and it was time to pay Mr. Tesla as per their contract that entitled Tesla on 1$ per every HP installed of his AC generators.

It is true that Mr. Tesla always invested all his earnings in his research, but I don't know which of his ideas YOU consider to be >>poorly conceived<<.

At end of development of Tesla's wireless energy transport, Mr. Morgan withdraw his funding, because he realized that it would not be possible to control use of so distributed electricity, so how can he make users to pay him? Of course he liked Tesla's free energy project still less, as how would he charge people for something that is available everywhere?

I only wonder where You collected such big pile of misinformations, if you are not producing that all from your imagination.......

In my last posting I explained how my Solars can work 24/7, and I hope it was without losing temper. I have feeling that You did not read it at all, or it is not your habit to apologize to person You so offhandedly insult? Unfortunately You also choose to insult man who cannot reply to you, and if someone use generalities, then it is YOU in first place. HOW can inventor of Tesla's caliber be called >>weak link<<, when not single of his projects has failed?

I certainly would not even think to compare myself to genius like Tesla, with my handful of inventions that are not even financed yet so I could make even Virtual Prototype.... I am also not so foolish to describe my inventions in details, BEFORE I apply for Patent and so secure my rights. Until then, whoever would not sign NDA with me, would not get detailed description how my inventions would work.

I also don't see what has it to do with borrowing ideas from nature, which has long past become science called Bionic? Or You want to say that God is holding Patents for creatures he designed, so it is forbidden to copy that?

If I quickly react to any unfounded criticism, that is only because if I do not react, other people may think I am admitting that it is so as stated.

Now, I would not discuss this further to have to read more insults, or if You prefer >>criticisms<< as You choose to call them.

Regards, Marijan Pollak

My way of interpreting 24/7 is when something goes round a clock non-stop.

It is a little confusing how you described the meaning of 24/7 that I as a investor would be cautious about. If there's a lack of sunshine for a few days than your solar-power station would gradually die down or its out put would get reduced to a negligible level. (( Have I got this part right at least? ))

If I did get it right then your 24/7 description is incorrect due to the fact your output power level will always be subject to fluctuation in the energy source.

Hence to support your claims the prototype is highly important, especially to prove the 100+ years of life expectancy of your wind generator with little or no maintenance. (In my view that is another confusing statement besides your 24/7 about your solar power generator.)

Despite the efforts some oil companies put into both solar and wind power generation research the achieved results as opposed to the desired results are still insufficient.

Of course, I can also see the logic behind it because both these energy sources are freely available to everybody, regardless where they live. However, trying to harness wind and solar energies are the softer issues to solve our crisis.

You might recall a discussion on CR4 called 'Hydrothermal Energy is Now a Reality' where Marshall tried to propose a renewable energy source that is not only clean but perhaps the most superior both in energy as well as in consistency.

In Mr Marshall's case no prototype is required because of the obvious challenges that even oil companies are avoiding until they run out of alternatives or the world's population declines.

Vestas may be closing a production facility, but they are just moving the work to where labour and transport costs are cheaper. For some, no matter how many targets are set and met, there are still more ways to cut "overheads", even if that means employing near-slave labour in developing countries. Having said that, how come we need quite so much?? Wind power is not the best of the renewables, but the easiest to access so development costs will be less, and the lessons learnt from controlling these can be transferred to offshore wave and tidal systems which offer substantially more energy in a more reliable format.

Electricity applied gadgets can come closer to clean tech criteria. The ultimate solution is not with environmentalists but with the providers of green electricity. Wind energy is one of the choice and many other options should also be experimented.