Previous in Forum: Alternator for Turbine   Next in Forum: Simple Current Limiting
Close
Close
Close
14 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Anonymous Poster

Is the Earth getting heavier?

10/11/2009 8:55 PM

Curiosity has caught me on this one, and perhaps some naievity as well. As a planet we are being continually bombarded by solar radiation, the majority of which is deflected/ reflected by the atmosphere; but what of the rest?

This discussion is not aimed at whether or not global warming is happening or not, but on the thought of what is happening with this extra radiation. Einstein has told us that E=mc^2, so if this energy is not leaving the planet, there are only 2 possibilities, the energy remains as energy, or is converted into mass.

I admit I am no physicist and have no idea of the natural mechanisms that convert energy into mass, or whether electromagnetic waves have mass.

Would anyone share to shed some light on the issue?

Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#1

Re: Is the Earth getting heavier?

10/12/2009 4:55 AM

<...Would anyone share to shed some light on the issue?...>

Would that reduce the mass of that individual, then?

This is a good one for Jorrie.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Reply
2
Guru
Engineering Fields - Aerospace Engineering - Retired South Africa - Member - The Rainbow-nation Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - Relativity & Cosmology Popular Science - Cosmology - The Big Picture!

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Posts: 3804
Good Answers: 69
#2

Re: Is the Earth getting heavier?

10/12/2009 5:12 AM

Hallo Guest.

"Einstein has told us that E=mc^2, so if this energy is not leaving the planet, there are only 2 possibilities, the energy remains as energy, or is converted into mass."

Mass, heat, radiation are basically one and the same, just different states of energy. It is true that if the average temperature of the Earth goes up, it becomes "heavier". This is however a minuscule effect (a tiny amount of mass is equivalent to a lot of energy - the c^2 in the equation!)

Earth is gaining lots of mass every day in the form of meteors and meteorites, but it has little overall effect - we will have to wait perhaps millions of years to be able to detect a change in "g". The Moon, changing our rate of rotation, has a larger effect on the total energy of Earth...

-J

__________________
"Perplexity is the beginning of knowledge." -- Kahlil Gibran
Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: City of Light
Posts: 3943
Good Answers: 183
#3

Re: Is the Earth getting heavier?

10/12/2009 5:39 AM

If a ray meets the earth surface it will give its energy to the absorbing surface and this one will increase its temperature since its molecules/atoms have now a higher energy level and their movement will be more active.

The highest radiant power received on earth (value it is used to estimate solar panels productivity) is in the range of 1 kW/m². According to the equation you mention

M= E/c² thus for the mass in kg/h= 1.000 [W]/(3.000.000.000[m/s])^2 = 3.3 E-16 [kg/h/m²]

This is valid for a narrow zone near to the equator and only around noon.

If we consider the two movements of earth: 24 h periods and seasons then this rate is multiplied by two Cos functions which take into consideration the angles between the vertical and the solar ray. If the seasons effect is neglected then per 24h the mass is about 2.52 E-15 [kg]. This means that 1m² of earth will receive a mass of 1kg in 1.13 E12 years! (1,300,000,000,000 YEARS).

It is only an opinion.

Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: San Francisco, California, United States
Posts: 16
#9
In reply to #3

Re: Is the Earth getting heavier?

10/13/2009 3:35 PM

"It is only an opinion."

But very cool :-)

Thanks

__________________
grommet
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: City of Light
Posts: 3943
Good Answers: 183
#11
In reply to #9

Re: Is the Earth getting heavier?

10/14/2009 4:10 AM

Modesty is an important factor and since nobody knows all it is better to show it.

I notice that you agree that populations (not only humans) do not come from space.

Thank you for the appreciation.

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User
Hobbies - Hunting - Deer and Birds Hobbies - HAM Radio - Achieved Ham Radio license in 2008 Hobbies - Fishing - Fisherman United States - US - Statue of Liberty - Know freedom, no tyranny.  Know tyranny, no freedom. Hobbies - DIY Welding - Beginner

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Pacific Northwest USA
Posts: 223
Good Answers: 19
#4

Re: Is the Earth getting heavier?

10/12/2009 10:53 AM

There is another reason the earth is getting heavier, human population is nearing 9 billion, when in the beginning (whether you think creation or evolution) there were zero people...

__________________
Go green, use a solar powered light saber...
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: City of Light
Posts: 3943
Good Answers: 183
#5
In reply to #4

Re: Is the Earth getting heavier?

10/12/2009 11:40 AM

Where does the weight of population come? From space?

Even in the creationist approach humans were made with earth materials!

In fact the earth receives much more "weight" from the small meteorites coming continuously from the surroundings.

Reply
Power-User
Hobbies - Hunting - Deer and Birds Hobbies - HAM Radio - Achieved Ham Radio license in 2008 Hobbies - Fishing - Fisherman United States - US - Statue of Liberty - Know freedom, no tyranny.  Know tyranny, no freedom. Hobbies - DIY Welding - Beginner

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Pacific Northwest USA
Posts: 223
Good Answers: 19
#6
In reply to #5

Re: Is the Earth getting heavier?

10/12/2009 1:07 PM

Babies from space! LOL but seriously, so when a baby is born, and further develops to full grown, no new mass develops? The mass already exists somewhere? And don't write back food...because that develops from smaller less mass material also...

__________________
Go green, use a solar powered light saber...
Reply
Member

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 6
#7
In reply to #6

Re: Is the Earth getting heavier?

10/13/2009 7:22 AM

I'd say it fluctuates with time. Right now we're getting heavier. We loose some mass in the form of energy out to space through radiation, and some mass is converted to energy in the nuclear reactions in the core, but not more than we receive by getting bombarded by objects from space. When we do loose mass, it's mainly from cataclysmic impacts (or perhaps super volcanoes)... such as the meteor that wiped out the dinosaurs, or as some theories go, the one that created the moon.

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1790
Good Answers: 87
#13
In reply to #6

Re: Is the Earth getting heavier?

10/22/2009 5:06 AM

Matt,

Mass is conserved. Having babies adds no mass to the planet. Humans are mostly water, with a bit of carbon and minerals. Plants are mostly water with carbon. The materials that make a human or a plant are taken from the environment and used to build an organism. When a person poops or dies or breathes material is exchanged back to the environment, but the mass of the earth is conserved.

Again with the exception of solar influx and meteors etc as mentioned above.

Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: San Francisco, California, United States
Posts: 16
#10
In reply to #4

Re: Is the Earth getting heavier?

10/13/2009 3:37 PM

Matt,

I can't make sense of your hypothesis. Though the human population has grown it has only used existing resources to do so. Therefore the mass contained in the larger huma population has only been relocated, net gain in mass=zero. In my opinion.

__________________
grommet
Reply
Anonymous Poster
#8

Re: Is the Earth getting heavier?

10/13/2009 2:00 PM

To the extent the temperature of the earth increases, the mass of the earth increases, because faster moving particles have higher mass.

There is probably some increase in mass and then a similar decrease iin mass upon the occurance of large solar flares. At the beginning of a large solar flare, increased pair production would occur, and taking some small amount of time before the positrons annialate themselves with and electron, this lag may result in an increase in mass early in the solar flare occurance, and a decrease as the radiation levels fall back to normal.

benbenben

Reply
Guru
Canada - Member - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: GTA Canada
Posts: 722
Good Answers: 23
#12

Re: Is the Earth getting heavier?

10/15/2009 1:44 PM

What about all the thousands of spacecraft and satellites we've been sending OFF this rock for the last 60 or so years?

I realize that it's a small percentage of the total mass of Earth, but I suspect it could come close to being a wash for the same time period.

__________________
Have a Happy! ;-)
Reply
Anonymous Poster
#14

Re: Is the Earth getting heavier?

10/23/2009 11:21 AM

One meteor plunging into Earth adds more mass to our planet than thousands of years of extra radiation and we are bombarded with meteors by millions. If you have time to think better find out how many devils fit on the pinhead?

Kazik

Reply
Reply to Forum Thread 14 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

albery (1); Anonymous Poster (2); grommet (2); Jorrie (1); Loupy (1); Matt Skywalker (2); nick name (3); PWSlack (1); Steve S. (1)

Previous in Forum: Alternator for Turbine   Next in Forum: Simple Current Limiting

Advertisement