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Water on the moon??

10/17/2009 8:43 AM

I am confused by talk of NASA scientists looking for water on the moon. Have the press got the wrong end of the stick again?. I understand that there is no atmosphere - to me that means that they have a perfect vacuum and so any water would be in vapour form and so would form an atmosphere.

One source tell me that the force of gravity of the moon is too low to retain an atmosphere!

Again if we have a perfect vacuum then exploding something on the moon would mean that all debris, regardless of size, would be propelled out and up but would all fall immediately and simultaneously back again - how could you get a plume? Surely a plume would require an atmosphere to give particle separation.

What are NASA really up to??

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#1

Re: Water on the moon??

10/17/2009 9:10 AM

Don't blame it all on NASA. It's not a conspiracy.

News.com.au: Water Found on Moon Could Lead to Colonies

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#2

Re: Water on the moon??

10/17/2009 10:13 AM

Then it must be dehydrated - they have the right conditions for freeze drying!

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#3

Re: Water on the moon??

10/17/2009 10:32 AM

You have several misconceptions that are causing your confusion. First, there is no such thing as a perfect vacuum. Nothing is perfect. (Pun intended ) Interstellar space is the closest we believe to a perfect vacuum but even between the stars there is a tiny amount of normal matter. (Ignoring dark matter, whatever that might be.) Now water at room temperature and at the near nothing pressure of the Earth's moon is a vapour. But water at the very cold temperature of the dark side of the moon will exist as a solid, regardless of the tiny pressure. Most of the moon does get illuminated by the sun for half of it's orbit around us, but not all. There are some craters at the north and south pole, deep enough that sunlight never reaches the bottom. The bottom of one of these craters is where the impacter rocket struck so that this debris would see the light of day. The hope was that this would both contain water and that this water would also reside at some depth below the surface. The impacter test would only test the first of these two hopes. Lastly, a plume does not require an atmosphere to exist. Inertia can work just as well. In a plume of smoke on Earth, you are correct that the dynamics of the heated atmosphere containing the smoke and the unheated atmosphere causes a visible plume to rise. But some of the lunar material will gain kinetic energy from the impact and generate a plume of material being ejected out of the crater. Likely some of this material reached the low escape velocity of the moon and may become a meteorite on Earth.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Water on the moon??

10/17/2009 10:51 AM

I think you are reading the wrong science fiction! Ice sublimes otherwise you would not have freeze drying and all that build up in your fridge.

OK Space (where the moon is I understand) is maybe not a prefect vacuum but it is the nearest you are going to get so may be considered as a full vacuum. Not attainable anywhere on earth. It is a half life problem and a you cannot have half of nothing you might find the odd molecule per cubic mile or so.

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#5
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Re: Water on the moon??

10/17/2009 11:00 AM

"The average daytime abundances of the elements known to be present in the lunar atmosphere, in atoms per cubic centimeter, are as follows: H <17, He 2-40x103, Na 70, K 17, Ar 4x104, yielding ~8x104 total atoms per cubic centimeter, marginally higher than the quantity posited to exist in the atmosphere of Mercury."

From Wiki

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#6
In reply to #4

Re: Water on the moon??

10/17/2009 4:13 PM

Science fiction? Well here is a phase state diagram for water.

You will notice that regardless of pressure, at temperatures below 200K water exists solely as a solid. I'm not sure which British university this diagram came from but the link goes into much finer detail on the variety of known ice states. Now inside this dark crater the calculated temperature in this permanent darkness is 40K ~ 50K. So one can have ice on the moon. You might also find this ice on the moon link enlightening.

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#7

Re: Water on the moon??

10/17/2009 4:46 PM

They are looking for water.

Water is the basis for life here on earth. If a maned moon base or on any other planet is considered in the future. Water will be a problem. With water present on the they can grow their own food. They can make fuel for electrical power. They can make fuel for the return flight. All these become a supply problem if it has to be hauled from the earth to the moon. If there is enough water the moon could provide fuel for farther reaches in to space.

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#8

Re: Water on the moon??

11/01/2009 11:34 PM

Oh I thought it was Mars now the Moon! LOL Why there is no life out there I am pretty sure.

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