Previous in Forum: CD Spot Welder Design   Next in Forum: 12 pulse rectifier
Close
Close
Close
5 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Active Contributor

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA - but working internationally - mostly Pacific Rim
Posts: 12

Branch Circuit Tapped Before Main Breaker

10/28/2009 3:49 AM

I am working on an electrical system design to be supplied to Chinese customer. The basic design is by German colleagues. A portion of the design has me concerned.

A power cabinet which provides MCC functionality is fed with a 1600 A feeder (380VAC 3-phase). Ahead of the main breaker, they have tapped wires off to a 400 A branch circuit. Therefore a single incoming feeder effectively feeds a 1600A breaker in parallel with a 400A breaker.

The main feed cable for ~2000 A is brought in with sufficiently sized cable and landed on a copper bus bar which is terminated at the U/V/W terminals of the main 1600A breaker. Those bus bars have smaller (sufficient for 400A) cables routed to a 400 A breaker. The distance is short - 1-1.5m (or less) of cable and within a single cabinet bay.

The fabricator is using a flame-retardant cable they have identified as "Short-circuit-proof" (meaning the insulation will not ignite prior to completely open circuiting and eliminating the fault current).

That length of wire is only protected by the 2000 A CB located a distance away in the plant sub-station.

Can anyone provide any experience in this type of application and possibly point me to some code standard (or more likely an exception granting) which allows this. The colleagues asure me they do it all the time and it is perfectly acceptable - but they can't point me to a code standard indicating so.

__________________
Any sufficiently advanced technology will appear as Magic. {not mine... can't remember}
Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Active Contributor

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Lyme, Connecticut
Posts: 20
#1

Re: Branch Circuit tapped before main breaker

10/28/2009 7:13 AM

I have seen a similar arrangement in an electrical utility company where many of the 13.8kV breakers fed multiple feeders which supplied 4160V and 480V load centers throughout the plant.

In some instances two or more feeders were terminated at the load side of a single breaker. Other times, a single feeder terminated at the breaker went to a splice box where it was spliced to multiple feeders. The 13.8 kV breakers provided only feeder fault protection and not cable or transformer overcurrent protection. Transformer protection was provided only by the low side circuit breakers. This obviously provided no protection for a transformer overload caused by shorted turns which was probably considered to be a low probability event.

The intent of the scheme was economy and reliability and not equipment protection. It was probably based on risk/consequences of an overload versus a fault.

I don't know if this configuration will be addressed by any code. It may be more of an insurance concern than a safety issue.

Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Alabama
Posts: 1604
Good Answers: 63
#2

Re: Branch Circuit tapped before main breaker

10/28/2009 9:50 AM

NEC Section 240 Tapped Conductors.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Power-User
United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: KY, USA
Posts: 367
Good Answers: 18
#3

Re: Branch Circuit Tapped Before Main Breaker

10/28/2009 11:29 AM

As another poster has already stated Section 240, more specifically 240.21(B)(1), of the U.S. National Electric Code (NEC) covers this situation.

Section 240.21(A) through (G) contains permissible rules for under-protected "tapped conductors." Part (B) of Section 240.21 is broken down according to lengths of conductors from taps. These regulations are commonly referred to as "NEC tap distance rules."

__________________
The most valuable of all talents is that of never using two words when one will do. ~Thomas Jefferson
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Power-User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Canning Vale Western Australia.
Posts: 160
Good Answers: 7
#4

Re: Branch Circuit Tapped Before Main Breaker

10/28/2009 11:53 PM

In Australia, (your avitar doesn't say where you are) to our Wiring Rules, the only time this is permissible is for a feed like this is to fire fighting equipment. This is so when the board is taken off at its main isolator the fire equipment is still energised. No other equipment has this permission.

__________________
I attend work so my dogs can have the good life.
Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA - but working internationally - mostly Pacific Rim
Posts: 12
#5

Re: Branch Circuit Tapped Before Main Breaker

10/29/2009 11:37 PM

To all responses,

Thanks very much, I appreciated the insights - and the pointer to NEC article 240 gives me my homework assignment.

__________________
Any sufficiently advanced technology will appear as Magic. {not mine... can't remember}
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 5 comments

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Doggoneit (1); EElectrician (1); JoeinLyme (1); kamathews (1); wareagle (1)

Previous in Forum: CD Spot Welder Design   Next in Forum: 12 pulse rectifier
You might be interested in: Cable Laying Services, Cable Assemblies, Cable Trays

Advertisement