Previous in Forum: CT ratio & burden   Next in Forum: Branch Circuit Tapped Before Main Breaker
Close
Close
Close
7 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Associate

Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 50
Good Answers: 1

CD Spot Welder Design

10/28/2009 1:52 AM

Hi again to all the electric gurus out there...

I am aiming to build a capacitive discharge welder similar to the one this fellow built:

http://www.ledhacks.com/power/battery_tab_welder.htm

What I am wondering is do you think I can find a relay that is rated at a high enough DC current to do the job of delivering the high amperage needed to do some tab welding instead of a thyristor? Or is a thyristor the best thing for the job? Also if someone has a link to a circuit that I could use to apply a timed voltage to the thyristor/relay in order to control the length of the weld that would be great.

Any side comments are also appreciated. I am starting out with a 1.6 F cap and a 13.8v dc power supply (the kind used to test radios in a car audio shop).

Thanks!

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Guru
New Zealand - Member - Kiwi Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 8777
Good Answers: 376
#1

Re: CD Spot Welder Design

10/28/2009 2:46 PM

What I am wondering is do you think I can find a relay that is rated at a high enough DC current to do the job of delivering the high amperage needed to do some tab welding instead of a thyristor? Or is a thyristor the best thing for the job?

No, you need an electronic switch otherwise all you will be doing is transferring the spot welding to your relay or contactor contacts instead. Your only other option is to not use a switch, but as mentioned in the article you won't get a repeatable weld.

Large SCRs are expensive new but shouldn't be that hard to find at a second hand electronics store or online (either sold by themselves or incorporated in a piece of electronic equipment) for a fraction of the price.

__________________
jack of all trades
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 50
Good Answers: 1
#2
In reply to #1

Re: CD Spot Welder Design

10/28/2009 8:56 PM

What are some common devices that would employ a thyristor, do you know?

Register to Reply
Power-User
United States - Member - Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: La Grande, Oregon U.S.A.
Posts: 468
Good Answers: 23
#3
In reply to #2

Re: CD Spot Welder Design

10/29/2009 1:13 AM

spot welders use suitable thyristors ( sorry- joke)

Motor controllers would be a good bet. Although your application uses a lot of current, the voltage requirement is rather low - so a suitable one shouldn't be hard to find. I think that the surplus ones won't be hard to find and will have a better chance of working than a salvaged one.

__________________
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft! - Theodore Roosevelt
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bangalore, India
Posts: 725
Good Answers: 24
#4

Re: CD Spot Welder Design

10/29/2009 4:51 AM

I had made a thermocouple CD welding circuit almost thirty years back using an ordinary limit switch that worked for decades. In my opinion it is the breaking DC that causes arcing problems more than the making contact. Any bounce free contact should work though 1.6 F is large. Do you really need that much? Since capacitance discharge is controlled by the R-C value is timing of any use?

__________________
bioramani
Register to Reply
Guru
Australia - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NSW Australia
Posts: 1101
Good Answers: 23
#5

Re: CD Spot Welder Design

10/29/2009 7:13 AM

The SCR is the way it is done in capacitive discharge spot welders. So long as your repetition rate is not to high small heat sinks are ok design depending what style of SCRs you decide to use.

You need a multi tap transformer to charge your capacitor bank for different voltage levels also with multiple capacitors which can be tapped you will attain control over the amount of energy delivered to the weld.

A 400Amp rms, 200Volt peak phase control SCR should be OK as a starting point.You need a control circuit to recharge and control inrush current to the capacitors which should cut out when full state of charge is attained this must be interlocked with the output switching circuit so that your setting is consistent and isolate the charging circuit when welding.

If you do some searching on Ebay you will find SCRs for sale. Also look up GE handbook on SCRs control.

This link will give you some pointers on pulse control.

http://www.abiscus.com/HV/PulseGenerator/PulseGenerator.htm

__________________
Dont get on to the roundabout if you dont know how to get off
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1601
Good Answers: 58
#6

Re: CD Spot Welder Design

10/29/2009 8:25 AM

Do yourself a favor and stay away from relays and contactors. You will wind up welding the contacts together and the welder will stop working. The large capacitance, low voltage caps you will be playing with are electrolytic capacitors. This means they have + and - terminals marked on them. Make sure you observe this polarity when wiring or the life of the capacitor will be greatly reduced. The biggest problem with this whole design is that these large electrolytic capacitors are not designed for this type of service and have limited life. Much better to use a lower value capacitor rated at a higher voltage (remember that the energy stored goes up as the square of the voltage). So if you double the voltage, the energy quadruples. The bad news is that then you need a step-down pulse transformer, but you will have a much better welder. See http://hackaday.com/2009/06/23/how-to-build-your-own-spot-welder/

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Hurst, Texas
Posts: 178
Good Answers: 4
#7

Re: CD Spot Welder Design

10/29/2009 9:24 AM

Try adapting a starter solenoid. Separate the coil winding from the contact circuit if they are connected.

Good Luck!

__________________
Bill H.
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 7 comments
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Bill H. (1); bioramani (1); dequinox (1); garth (1); jack of all trades (1); LG_Dave (1); welderman (1)

Previous in Forum: CT ratio & burden   Next in Forum: Branch Circuit Tapped Before Main Breaker

Advertisement