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Location: Saharanpur, Uttar Pradesh,India
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Pipe fittings-Manufacturing/Quality Assurance

11/07/2009 5:09 AM

Dear All,

Please tell me about nominal bore of pipe, is there any relationship between wall thickness,nominal bore and outer dia.

How can we measure nominal bore of any pipe.

Anil

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Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
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#1

Re: Pipe fittings-Manufacturing/Quality Assurance

11/07/2009 5:20 AM

OD

-wall thickness

x2

=ID.

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Anonymous Poster
#2

Re: Pipe fittings-Manufacturing/Quality Assurance

11/07/2009 5:49 AM

Theoritical OD - Theoritical Wall Thickness = Theoritical ID

(However this differs from the nominal bore bu just a tiny amount)

These are based on the semi-prehistoric practices. Now any way for the pipes - you have the OD controlled (eg 1" will have 33.4mm or 1.315")

This will be a 1" pipe irrespective of the wall thickness (it may be upto 9mm or so, but still it will be called NB25)

A chart for your reference (Google and you will find millions of them)

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Guru
Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - Retired Piper

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#3

Re: Pipe fittings-Manufacturing/Quality Assurance

11/07/2009 9:55 AM

Now let me see if I can make this very, very clear. As father to son, as teacher to student:
- If you are dealing with and designing to Imperial units (Feet and inches) then the proper terminology is NPS to designate pipe size.
- If you are dealing with and designing to Metric units then the proper terminology is DN to designate pipe size.

There are NO situations, none what-so-ever, where you would be using the term "Nominal Bore" (NB) to designate a pipe size. Whoever taught you (and others) this was wrong! He may have also been improperly instructed when he was learning. None the less it is not proper Piping Talk.

More thoughts:

#1

You and many others who still are not clear about Pipe, Pipe sizes, Pipe outside diameters, Pipe Inside Diameters, pipe wall thicknesses, Pipe Schedule nomenclature/NPT to DN Cross Refference, etc should look at this web site. You should copy (Print out) the chart and study it in detail.

#2NPS = Nominal Pipe Size (US) For metric the term is "DN" = Diameter Nominal

#3You used the initials "NB". I can only assume that you mean "Nominal Bore". If I am correct in this assumption, then you should understand this. There is no such thing as a nominal bore. The "Bore" of all pipe for a specific pipe size (NPS or DN) changes with the Schedule change or wall thickness change. So there is really no such thing as Nominal (Normal) Bore.

#4The person responsible for setting (selecting) the pipe wall schedule is the Piping Material Engineer. The Schedule (or wall thickness) is determined by the system Design Pressure/Design Temperature/Commodity/Corrosion Allowance/Plant Life and other mitigating factors. Look at the chart. There are seven (7) listings for 4" (DN 100) pipe commercially produced and available. Each has a different wall thickness and multiple schedule listings. Some of the listings (5S, 10S, 40S, etc.) are for Stainless Steel pipe. The others are for Carbon Steel and Alloy Steels.

#5As for why do we have one method for 12" (DN 300)and under sizes and a different method 14" (DN 350) and larger sizes. I do not know the answer to that. I do not think anyone else knows the real reason either. I have seen some peoples thoughts on it but I suspect they are just guessing. It is like Gravity, we do not fully understand everything about it but we just learn to accept it.

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Anonymous Poster
#4
In reply to #3

Re: Pipe fittings-Manufacturing/Quality Assurance

11/07/2009 12:03 PM

I sorry to disagree NB is used and in the context of nominal bore only. Only, as I mentioned, now it does not really match with the actual bore and as I mentioned based on the wall thickness (which of course is to be precise defined by the 11 odd schedules- or 16 in the expanded)

Just to have a few links where NB is used

http://www.metals4u.co.uk/detail.asp?cat_id=165&prd_id=2955

http://www.nero.co.uk/tube_pipe~nominal_bore_nb_schedule_40s

etc. or

WIKI

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominal_Pipe_Size

Nominal Pipe Size (NPS) is a North American set of standard sizes for pipes used for high or low pressures and temperatures.[1] Pipe size is specified with two non-dimensional numbers: a nominal pipe size (NPS) based on inches, and a schedule (Sched. or Sch.). NPS is often incorrectly called National Pipe Size, due to confusion with national pipe thread (NPT). For other pipe size standards, see pipe (material) - sizes. The European designation equivalent to NPS is DN (diamètre nominal/nominal diameter), in which sizes are measured in millimetres.[2] The term NB (nominal bore) is also frequently used interchangeably with NPS.

However these are only terminologies since neither NB nor NPS nor DN actually equals to the actual diameter ID or OD or even the mean. These are as I mentioned terminolgies from bygone era. Though this logic does not apply to tubes where 40mm tube means the OD is 40mm.

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Anonymous Poster
#5
In reply to #4

Re: Pipe fittings-Manufacturing/Quality Assurance

11/07/2009 12:21 PM

As far as 12" Vs > 12" is concerned, as I have mentioned in another thread, quite a few months back, the pipe ODs and the NPT sizes are linked, which was standardised first, I don't know, but it is likely that once the NPT sizes were fixed the pipe OD were totally fixed.

Upto 12" being common at that point of history, there was no manipulation possible there, since any changes would have had effect in the ones supplied to the old system However the larger, and the uncommon ones could be changed/ frozen in inception) and that was done. Now NPT 14" has the dia 14" where as for 12" it is 12.75"

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Guru
Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - Retired Piper

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#6
In reply to #4

Re: Pipe fittings-Manufacturing/Quality Assurance

11/07/2009 12:47 PM

Yes you can find places where people and companies have used NB (Nominal Bore) to define pipe, BUT that does not make it right!

The repeat use of an incorrect term does not make it correct.

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Guru
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#7
In reply to #4

Re: Pipe fittings-Manufacturing/Quality Assurance

11/07/2009 11:18 PM

Okay, though you may disagree you can't show "NB" as an internationally acknowledged pipe standard, so I offer these common Pipe & Equipment common Abbreviations and Acronyms:

Pipe & Equipment Abbreviations & Acronyms

AARH
BB
BBE
BHN
Bld.
BOE
BE x TE
BOI
BOP
B x T
BU
conc. red.
ecc. red.
ell
EOL
EOP
F to F
F/F
F&D
FF
flg.
FOB
FOT
FHF
HF
HFC
LEB
LEP
LET
LOL
NPS
NPT
NRS
OS&Y
PBE
PE
POE
RCP
RF
RJ
RS
RMS
RBB
SO
SEB
SEP
SET
SW
Std. Wt.
TBE
TOE
TOL
WOG
WN
WOL
XH
XXH
arithmetic average roughness height
bolted bonnet
bevel both ends (pipe nipple)
brinell hardness number
blind (flange)
bevel one end (pipe nipple)
beveled end by threaded end (pipe nipple)
bottom of insulation
bottom of pipe
beveled by threaded (pipe nipple)
back-up (flange)
concentric reducer
eccentric reducer
elbow
elbolet
end of pipe
face to face
face of flange
faced & drilled
flat face (flange)
flange
flat on bottom (eccentric reducer)
flat on top (eccentric reducer)
full hard surface
hard faced
hard faced seats
large end beveled (swage)
large end plain (swage)
large end threaded (swage)
latrolet
nominal pipe size
national pipe taper
non-rising stem (valve)
outside screw & yoke (valve)
plain both ends (pipe nipple)
plain end (pipe nipple)
plain one end (pipe nipple)
reinforced concrete pipe
raised face
ring joint (flange)
rising stem (valve)
root mean square (roughness height)
round bolted bonnet (valve)
slip-on (flange)
small end beveled (swage)
small end plain (swage)
small end threaded (swage)
socketweld (flange or fitting)
standard weight (pipe schedule)
thread both ends (pipe nipple)
thread one end (pipe nipple)
threadolet
water, oile & gas
weldneck (flange)
weldolet
extra heavy (pipe schedule)
double extra heavy (pipe schedule)

Non-Metallic Piping Abbreviations & Acronyms

ABS
CAB
CP
CPVC
FEP
PB
PE
PFA
POM
POP
PP
PPS
PR
PTFE
PVC
PVDC
PVDF
RPM
RTR
SDR
acrylonitrile-butadiene-styrene
cellulose acetate-butyrate
chlorinated polyether
chlorinated poly (vinyl chloride)
perfluoro (ethylene-propylene) copolymer
polybutylene
polyethylene
perfluoro (alkoxyalkane) copolymer
polyacetal, poly (oxymethylene)
poly (phenylene oxide)
polypropylene
poly (phenylene sulfide)
pressure rated
polytetrafuoroethylene
poly (vinyl chloride)
poly (vinylidene chloride)
poly (vinylidene fluoride)
reinforced plastic mortar
reinforced thermosetting resin
standard dimensional ratio
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Anonymous Poster
#8
In reply to #7

Re: Pipe fittings-Manufacturing/Quality Assurance

11/08/2009 1:06 AM

obviously you are limited to the US abbreviations, which does not make the world.

where is the BS and BSPT?

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Anonymous Poster
#9
In reply to #7

Re: Pipe fittings-Manufacturing/Quality Assurance

11/08/2009 1:41 AM

you can't show "NB" as an internationally acknowledged pipe standard,

I have already attached links from UK

http://www.nan-long.com/Metal%20Steel%20Technology%20Summary/Diameter_Nominal-Nominal_Bore-Nominal_Pipe_Size.htm (China)

More countries required?

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pipes-tubes-d_347.html

Nominal Bore (NB) may be specified under British standards classifications along with schedule (wall thickness).

It is just like UNC and NPT does not make the world. And that way Meter, Kg, Metric Threads are not standard either, nor is ISO or EPV Directives.

Standards are made from usages and NB is world wide (may be except a region) accepted terminology.

I can refer to any number of books referring to NB just for an example -

"Guide to European Pressure Equipments"

Nozzle sizes are specified as a nominal pipe size in inches (e.g.6" NB or 6" NPS) or in milimeters (e.g. DN150). : page 30

Screwed connections over 4"NB are not generally used in pressure vessels and... (Page 40)

And as per any number of wrong usages do not make a standard- the usage of DN (diameter Nominal meaning Nominal Bore in english) or NPS which do not correspond to OD, ID, Mean diameter or any portion of mechanical calculation are completely wrong terminology.

can you take your 6" NPS and the schedule (or thicknsess) and sit down and do the calculations on the strengths?

Take 6" as what ? Schedule as what ?

We are unnecessarily going into semantics of a thing that is basically unscientifically defined (NPS and Schedules for you, other terminologies for lesser persons) and I don't know wy to argue about a thing that is basically wrong, just to say you are completely wrong and I am 0.001% more right than you?

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Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - bwire Hobbies - Car Customizing - New Member

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Pipe fittings-Manufacturing/Quality Assurance

11/09/2009 1:18 AM

You asked...

You are confusing vendor designations and or vendor classifications with standards.

*Result of a search for IHS/Global "NB" Pipe

*Result of a search for IHS/Global "NB"

*Note: No, none referenced results returned??

Founded in 1959, IHS offers a broad base of engineering data from research and design to manufacturing and repair. Our product offering provides customers with time-saving tools that not only help to increase productivity, but help you to stay on the cutting-edge of technology and ahead of the competition. IHS is the industry's most comprehensive source of hard copy and PDF technical industry standards and government and military standards. Additionally, IHS publishes a variety of highly acclaimed reference books, manuals, and comprehensive guides.

More than 60,000 customers in 120 countries rely on IHS to fill their need for standards and specifications from more than 460 technical societies around the world. To meet the growing demand of international growth, IHS is established in many markets outside the U.S. to serve customers in local currencies and languages.

Customers receive unparalleled fast, dependable service in "one-stop shopping." Over 1,000 documents are processed each day, most of which are shipped within 24 hours. There are a variety of purchasing and delivery options, as well as free update services for revised or superseded standards. IHS can help you to build a better, safer product, achieve international compliance to compete worldwide, and reduce development time to get to market faster.
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