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Participant

Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 4

Relationship PF with Maximum Power Output in Diesel Generator

11/17/2009 4:07 AM

I bought a generator ,STAMFORD BC.I184E1 , and coupled with Perkins 404D-22.
When I connected the generator to load with P.F=1,balanced load in every phase, the generator only could drive 12kw load. greater of 12kw load the generator could not drive and frequency of phase decreased,40Hz instead of 50Hz,and voltage decreased too,320v instead of 380v, but when we connected the generator to load with P.F=.8,load: R=18kw L=13kVAR, the generator could drive it without any problem.

What's occured? please help me to solve the problem.

STAMFORD BC.I184E1 Rating data is:

KVA 22.5 KW 18 P.F. 0.8 volts 380 Hz 50

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Active Contributor

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Delhi
Posts: 11
Good Answers: 1
#1

Re: relationship P.F with maximum power output in diesel generator

11/17/2009 7:03 AM

Well my friend,

KVA^2=KW^2 + KVAR^2, I believe you aware of this formula.

Here KVAR is called reactive load which results due to resultant of capacitive as well inductive load.

I believe, your load is comprises of very high inductive load, which results in such problem. If you have installed 2-3 induction motor as your load, then I will suggest to use capacitor bank in order to improve the Power factor and efficiency.

Another important observation in your problem is that drop in frequency, which also indicates something towards loading problem of geneartor.

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#2

Re: Relationship P.F with Maximum Power Output in Diesel Generator

11/17/2009 9:27 AM

The problem is not with the Alternator, but with the engine Horse Power. The engine HP is arrived at, taking into account an assumed power factor of 0.8 lag. Your alternator can very safely deliver 18kW load at UPF, provided the engine also can take the load. Here in your case, upon loading beyond 12kW, the engine is dying down and hence your frequency and voltage fall.

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Power-User

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Istanbul. European side
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#7
In reply to #2

Re: Relationship P.F with Maximum Power Output in Diesel Generator

11/23/2009 10:40 AM

A Good Answer, Electricalexpert65 is very right.

The problem is not with the Stamford alternator, but in connection with the engine.

Let's make a simple calculation.

For 22.5 KVA alternator, you need 22.5 KW(e) for (PF=1) of electrical power,

and you need 18 KW(e) for (PF=0.8) of nett electrical power output.

Alternators are always have electrical and mechanical losses. (Heat, Friction, Hysterresist, cooling fan etc.)

Assuming the efficiency of the alternator is 0.8

22.5 Kw/0.8 = 28 KW(m) of mechanical power is needed to drive the alternator shaft for the case of (PF=1)

or 18 Kw /0.8 = 22.5 KW(m) of nett mechanic power for (Pf=0.8) is needed.

Naturally this mechanic power is coming from the engine shaft.

Engines are also having losses. (Coupling losses, Vibration losses, etc.)

Now assume the efficiency of the engine at shaft output is (0.8)

Then you need a higher engine output at the shaft, such as

28Kw/0.8 = 35 KW(m) of nett engine mechanic power output. (For Pf=1) or

22.5 / 0.8 = 28.5 KW(m) of nett engine power output (For Pf=0.8).

Above calculations are showing, he needs at least a 30 Kw of engine power at rated RPM.

In any other case, the engine speed will droop proportional to load increase

Kindest Regards.

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Participant

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#3

Re: Relationship P.F with Maximum Power Output in Diesel Generator

11/17/2009 9:32 AM

Dear suvekkmr

Thanks for reply, but I think this problem acquires because of my engine doesn't have enough power so in this load frequency decreased.

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#4

Re: Relationship P.F with Maximum Power Output in Diesel Generator

11/17/2009 9:44 AM

Dear electricalexpert65

Thank you for your help.

I think so.

But Im sorry maximum load was 15kw in P.F=1 before the frequency of phase has decreased.(not 12kw)

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#5

Re: Relationship PF with Maximum Power Output in Diesel Generator

11/18/2009 12:25 PM

Samrand,

You say that the motor -generator could not assure the frequency & voltage when loaded up to 12 kW but it worked OK when loading it up to 22.2 kVA it worked.

This is weird because the real/active component of the load (in this case 18 kW) exceeds the 12 kW in case of pf=1.

How did you measure the 12 kW respectively 18 kW/13 kVAr ? Usually via a Watt-meter or, in case of pf=1, via an A-meter & V-meter, but in this case it seems that the values do not match.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Relationship PF with Maximum Power Output in Diesel Generator

11/20/2009 2:23 AM

Dear tomad

After your response I measured genset again with a digital multimeter from LUMEL ,include 3 wattmeter 3 varmeter 3 voltmeter....,

I send report of measuring:

test1

kW kVAR kVA PF A

--------------------------------------------------------

2.45 4 5 0.5 24.6 phase1

5 0 5 0.5 24.6 phase2

2.45 4 5 0.5 24.6 phase3

test2

kW kVAR kVA PF A

--------------------------------------------------------

1.9 3.3 4 0.5 17 phase1

3.9 0 4 0.5 17 phase2

1.9 3.3 4 0.5 17 phase3

test3

kW kVAR kVA PF A VLL VLN

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

5.9 0 5.97 1 26.7 382 222 phase1

5.8 0 5.9 1 26.7 379 220 phase2

5.7 0.025 5.7 1 26.1 381 218 phase3

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Users who posted comments:

electricalexpert65 (1); nezihozfirat (1); samrand (3); suvekkmr (1); tomad (1)

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