Solution to Energy Needs

I vote for "use energy source which creates more energy than it consumes".

Yes, I strongly favor that one too. Imagine the possibilities. Gadzooks.

Huh?

Is there a point here?

Hi Steve,

This one lost me too. I have not quite figured out if the point is energy efficient fuel?? or creating an engine that produces more power per unit of fuel used, that is to say to increase the energy efficiency output percentage or in other words: energy in over energy out multiply by 100% equals efficiency!

It is possible that this thread is similar to some previous threads relating to bio/ eco fuels, but then again your guess is as good as mine, with a bit of luck we could get a bit of clarification later or then again maybe this was an intentional way of throwing the pigeon amongst the cats or whatever.

Mongoose:

What clarification? Its very clear: free energy, perpetual motion, voodoo physics ...

Regards,

Greg

"Sliding Potential: Water tower, water in free fall, weight equals energy to perform work."

(Otherwise known as potential energy)

Question: How do we get the water up to the tower? (Of course if we use the water to do work on the way down, we have reduced its "head" and defeated the purpose of the water tower as a part of the water system. But hey, as long as the water eventually ends up in the main, we can always pump it out if we need it.)

And, if I hook a small turbine up to my water supply pipe, I can generate free electricity .... who needs all that pressure anyway?

"Soulution: use energy source which creates more energy than it consumes. ie electrodes thru water from batteries, hydrogen produced, unload excess occasionally?"

Ah yes! The old "free energy from water trick". Why not just attatch a generator to one of the wheels of your electric car, that way you will charge your batteries up as you drive, then carry a couple of extra batteries in your trunk and charge them too. That way when you get home, you can power your house for free .. at least until they run down and you have to take another drive!

"Surface Area: More surface area such as sand or salt creates the potential for more energy force or potential whether form gravity, hydraulic, mass + air, air over hydraulic."

WTF?

Hi Greg, long time no see!

Oh Boy, here I go again, opening mouth to change feet!!!!!!! Should have read the question or rather understood what the question was trying to ask.

I believe it is most appropriate to quote Homer Simpson...

"Lisa, in our house, we obey the laws of Thermodynamics."

If you have a water tower you must first pump the water into it.

Even if you use a one horse/power motor (784 watts) to pump the water into the tower and then use the water to drive a 10 horse/power generator you will still use more power to pump the water into the tower than you get out. You might be able to generate 10 HP - but - not for nearly one tenth the time it took you to pump the water in the first place.

Not only you don't get something for nothing but there are losses caused by friction and other mechanical movements there is losses in the wire from the generator set, transformers, etc., some times you get less than nothing!

I say you have completely perplexed me with your arguments.

It seems that you are missing the conservation laws and the law of entropy in your suggestions.

First, water coming down from a water tower might seem to be a desirable power source to you but remember that the water needs some way to get to the top of the tower. That takes energy. In an ideal situation, your net power gain is zero as it would take the same energy to get the water to the top of the tower as it would to get it down from the top. In reality, it will take more energy to get the water to the top due to frictional, head, and other losses observed pumping it to the top and similar losses in whatever method you use for turning falling water into power. Using turbines with waterfalls or water wheels works because the water already has natural potential energy.

Second, it takes much more energy to convert water into hydrogen and oxygen than is realized by re-combining them. In essence, you are better using the energy stored in a battery directly than you are by using it to convert water into H2 and O2.

You completely lost me on your sand and salt surface-area suggestion.

My suggestion to you is to keep working on ideas but keep in mind that "Energy can neither be created or destroyed, it can only be converted". Also remember that in every conversion, you lose energy to friction, sound, and/or heat.

I recall a feasibility study done a couple of years ago, regarding the recharging of batteries using solar panels. For the life of me I cannot remember the details, but for some reason the project was scraped for some obscure reason relating to the size of the solar panel themselves and the cost of maintenance of said panels.

The principle did appear good though. Does anyone else have any more info to add, I for one would like to hear about it.

"I say you have completely perplexed me with your arguments."

Tell him to "Pull the other one..."

Be perplexed no longer. He is putting you, we, us on!

Stan:

It is possible he is putting us on but I doubt he would do it so transparently. I sensed well meaning proposals made out of ignorance, yet with a bit of arrogance by the implication that "why haven't we thought of these things?" that are so "simple".

You seem to have more faith in the knowledge of posters like him than I do. People actually purchase devices for their cars that break down water by electrolysis using power from the vehicle's electrical system, to increase mileage.

Getting something for nothing has an eternal appeal, and people are constantly coming up with new twists on the perpetual motion theme, and use them to produce extra energy to boot.

We've seen so many here.

Unfortunately, my own experience is that even most educated and intelligent people are ignorant of the implications of the law of conservation of energy, if they are even aware of it .. just ask around outside the scientific and engineering community.

You are a smart guy and I enjoy reading your posts.

Regards,

Greg

I think what he wanted is cold fusion. Or maybe we can set up a personal rain cloud that just rain on the water tower, this way no energy is needed to bring the water up to the tower, and we can use the water down from it to do work. (A personal weather device??) Just a thought.

MidniteFighter

It's bait guys. He's fishing for cheap entertainment; don't bite.

Call Joe Newman, Tom Bearden, and all those like minded 'researchers' who need just a little more R&D$ to finalize their grandiose plans to solve all the world's energy problems by extracting said energy from thin air, the atmosphere, the aether, plain water, specially treated water, the zero point, over unity devices/machines, etc., etc. ad infinitum!

It is all right under your nose on the internet, look no further.

If it is a health problem look for the "Gentle Wind Project."

When more and better 'bull throwing' is done the above folks will be doing it.

If I may say so, add Earl Pantone to your list above.

In our next session we will draft up a plan to change out all power plant turbines with Tesla Turbines, that will reduce our coal consumption by roughly 120% and continue to meet the ever increasing energy demands caused by these 1000 watt heaters we call work stations.

(Sorry, I couldn't help myself; there really are good solutions to solve the energy problem, but I don't know what it is so I should stop making jokes about those that are trying to find them.)

What the...?

I concur, I went from being slightly befuddled to the famous last words of the Mayor of Hiroshima....."What the F**K was that..............?"

guys, let's get away from this voodoo-physics aka perpetual motion/free energy stuffs.

what we need is an efficient energy conversion, storage and re-conversion system. check out gravity power under general.

...that's what many industrial systems are moving to. what's a gas/diesel hybrid car?-the core is still a gas or diesel engine. energy storage and re-conversion has been improved, coz the prime mover is run at its optimum condition! engine size is also greatly reduced. When you need real power, you're extracting it from storage and not the prime mover.(sadly, there is an interesting analogy here-you save 10 bucks for 1 year and imagine your spending power at day 365!).

also, I can get a mule to run in circles to charge my battery(LI-ion?) and pack that in my elctric/hybrid car! it does not have to be the grid or Exxon.

so gentlemen, its storage and re-conversion that matters, not voodoo magic!