Previous in Forum: How to Calculate Ampacity for a Brass Plate   Next in Forum: Power Cable Selection
Close
Close
Close
11 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Anonymous Poster

Cable Sizing

12/13/2009 3:12 AM

If I calculate that for a motor of say 100kW, 415V, 3 ph, that I get 204A ( that is 100000/(415x1.732x0.8x 0.85)), how do I decide whether to use a 3 core cable or single core cable of 3 runs. Appreciate if you can advise.

I get confused about the 3 core cable current - current rating in catalog for 3 core is it for one core out of the three ?

I deduce that 3c and 1c say of 120mm2 will have conductor size (copper cross section area only) of 120mm2. So if a single core cable is rated to carry more than 204A - I cannot use it. Am I right? because I have 3 terminals to terminate.

I am really confused. Appreciate your help.

Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Anonymous Poster
#1

Re: i want cable selecting formle

12/13/2009 3:46 AM

You have three phases to supply - that means you need three (mutually insulated) conductors - at least ie if you don't want to carry the Neutral.

Each of these phases must be rated for the required ampere - 204 for you (assuming your calculation is OK)

It is leftt to you that whether you want to carry 3 (or 4 ) single core cables of 204A each or one three/four core cables, each of the cores rated to that ampere.

If you are confused, usual practice- unless the company deliberately tries to mislead- is that the current rating of the cable is for each core (ie phase) and not the added up.

Anyway (not my answer ) PWS- respond.

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Anonymous Poster
#2

Re: i want cable selecting formle

12/13/2009 8:15 AM

You calculate the rated current .

Then you have to calculate the voltage drop....to calculate the voltage drop it is necessary to estimate the length of the cable or assume it 1 KM

once you calculate the voltage drop....then go for IEC standard tables from where you can find the size of the cable. since you have 3PH you require 3C/4C(with N)

In the table you can see whether the calculated voltage drop within the voltage deop mentioned in the table and check out relevant size from the table

hope this works out

Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Alabama
Posts: 1604
Good Answers: 63
#3

Re: Cable Sizing

12/13/2009 10:33 AM
Reply
2
Power-User
Ireland - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Energy Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 197
Good Answers: 17
#4

Re: Cable Sizing

12/13/2009 11:43 PM

Ok first you need to be careful with motors. The starting current can trip the breaker so the breaker is always oversized. Your running current is correct (if a little pessimistic; a 100kW motor should be good for 90%+ efficiency). Trusty Schneider says you would use a 360A rated MCCB (400A x 0.9 setting). Thus your cable must be rated to 360A.

Now the second part. When a multi-core cable rating is given, it is always per core. So a 3-core 360A cable is rated to carry 360A in each core simultaneously. Note that a balanced load is assumed; thus in a 4-core cable there will be no neutral current. Thus for a single load like a motor the neutral is usually omitted.

The rating for a 3-core cable will be less than for 3 single cables; obviously the heat generated by a 3-core cable is contained within the outer sheath, whereas with 3 single cables there is more exposed surface area.

Using 30°C ambient, compare the following NOTE THESE RATINGS MUST BE ALTERED FOR YOUR LOCATION AND LOCAL REGULATIONS:

XLPE Spaced from surface (eg on a cable ladder)

3-core multi-core cable = 120mm² = 363amp

3 x single core cables = 95mm² =385amp

Thus using single-core cables gives us a useful saving in cable. In addition we have some economy of scale, as we order a longer quantity (3 times as much) single-core cable; this often attracts higher wholesale discounts.

However we must balance this against slightly increased installation labour. Also the cables must be properly dressed (in trefoil) and supported or clamped. Whereas a 3-core cable can be clipped direct or more easily installed in a duct.

Contractors prefer to work with 3 no. single cables. The drums are lighter and the cable easier to handle and installed in confined spaces.

__________________
I love deadlines; I love the whooshing sound they make as they pass by. - Douglas Adams
Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#5

Re: Cable Sizing

12/14/2009 3:23 AM

British Standard 7671.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Nnewi,Anambra,Nigeria
Posts: 146
#6

Re: Cable Sizing

12/14/2009 7:11 AM

Dont be confused.U can use a 3 core cable of appropriate current rating.U can also use a single core cable of appropriate rating as long as the cable current carrying capacity can serve the motor.But what about yr earth cable for earthing yr motor,and yr neutral cable to supply yr motor control components coils(eg contactor)? Maybe u hv neutral/earth already in yr panel or mcc.But then u still need extra cable to earth yr motor from the panel or mcc.U may need 4 core or run a seperate earth cable.

However,i dont seem to agree with yr motor current calculation based on the given data or is that yr cable current carrying capacity calculation?.What is O.8 and O.85 ? Are they power factor and what? Well If i must use use O.8 as pf,then yr motor current would be 173.9Amps. If i use O.85 as pf,then motor current would be 163.7Amps.

Well check yr table of values for the appropriate cable sizing or calculate for it and if you hv already done that,pls go for a 3 core cable rather than single core of 3 runs.It makes a neat installation and more cable protection from external contacts apart from other advantages.

Note that if yr motor full load current is 204Amps for example,each 3 core cable must be able to handle the 204Amps,and they should be of same size except for neutral which could be halfed in some cases.

Patrick Whowha

__________________
Patrick Whowha
Reply
Participant

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: China
Posts: 1
#10
In reply to #6

Re: Cable Sizing

12/15/2009 9:11 AM

I agree, very nice information.

__________________
Supplier of Exhaust fan, centrifugal fan,industrial fan, electric blower, ventilation fan,roof fan and air condition fan.
Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: US - TEXAS
Posts: 196
Good Answers: 18
#7

Re: Cable Sizing

12/14/2009 7:29 AM

Its more of an installation problem than one of engineering. Each installation was created to serve a purpose and if you have an option, weight the following.

How much will the material cost?

How much will the labor cost?

Which one is easier to install?

Reply
Anonymous Poster
#8

Re: Cable Sizing

12/14/2009 7:55 PM

A single motor must be calculated at 125% of rated amperes(including service factor).

All three phase must carry a ground wire.3 Phase Y must carry a neutral and ground wire,even if the neutral is not used at the motor.

Per NEC.

The current for multicore is per conductor.

Single conductors are usually cheaper

You can use a conductor rated for higher amps, but not lower.

Reply
Power-User
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Hentoyk Philippines - Member - BRUTUS Saudi Arabia - Member - Brutus United Arab Emirates - Member - Brutus

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Gulf Region, IIEE_CRCSA
Posts: 113
Good Answers: 2
#9

Re: Cable Sizing

12/15/2009 5:18 AM

Each core of 3 or cores cable... say if 3C x 120mm2 = 204A then each rated the same amperage. Note that if this cable rating is given by the cable manufacturer's then is the maximum current carrying capacity of the said cable. To determine the approriate size of power cable/s it is important consider the voltage drop within the line at given distance or cable length, then after getting the voltage drop you can decide whether you need to reduce the size of the cable or increase it into the next higher commercial size. If the cable is directly laid on the ground or direct burial, it needs to derate the ampacity of a selected cable size at least 83% of its ampacity rating.

For Voltage drop NEC allows at maximum of 5% voltage drop of supply/nominal voltage from the power source to the farthest point of the circuit. Means that max. of 5% voltage regulation from receiving end(Er) up to Sending end(Es).

Voltage Drop Formula:

Single Phase : Vd = 2 x L x K x I / 1000 or CM(circular mil area of conductor)

Three Phase : Vd = 1.73 x L x K x I /1000 orCM(circular mil area of conductor)

Where L = Lenght of conductor in feet.

I = Current inconducor or connected load in ampere.

K = value changes with temperature. See NEC Code chapter 9, Table 8.

__________________
If there is a will... there is a way... No pain / No gain.
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Anonymous Poster
#11

Re: Cable Sizing

12/12/2010 12:56 AM

YOUR FORMULA IS NOT CORRECT

AND CORRECT FORMULA IS

P=1.732 *I*V*power factor

p=100KW

I=?

V=415volt

power factor (generally we use)=0.8

solution:

I=173.9 Amp

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Reply to Forum Thread 11 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (4); BabyGuinness (1); GRAY HAIRED OLD GOAT (1); hentoyk (1); kavonfan (1); Patrick Whowha (1); PWSlack (1); wareagle (1)

Previous in Forum: How to Calculate Ampacity for a Brass Plate   Next in Forum: Power Cable Selection
You might be interested in: Cable Laying Services, Cable Assemblies, Cable Trays

Advertisement