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RFID Tags for Electrical Conduits

12/15/2009 12:18 PM

Do you know of any manufacturer that has developed an Rfid tags system for electrical conduits and for cables as well

Typically a conduit system may have many large and small sized conduits emerging from a duct bank ,running in parallel within a room or entering/leaving through the wall which has been fire sealed making it somewhat difficult to trace the routing of conduits; i.e. sometimes at ceiling of 10 ft or higher

The conduits usually will have had someone who just marked in black magic permanent marker, the conduit ID and If really lucky a label had been applied to the conduit itself but this is not always the case If they did do the job as usually specified, a metal tag engraved with the cdt name as it enters or leaves a room or electrical components such as a breaker panel. If I am correct the newer NEC 2008 codes also applies now to identification of these components as well as the Electrical equipment in rooms such as breaker panels,etc that have not even been identified or always correctly in the past

A lot of time the as built Dwgs are not completely cadd'd or if so and on a computer they sometimes don't match with what has actually been installed is in the field

Has any company developed some type of cadd'd system, or excel format etc. database solution for a cdt/cable list and applied field Rfid tags to these building components so that one can easily trace within the building the route of the conduit and cables.

As cables fail or additional cables need to be added it becomes difficult to locate such routes and RFID tags may e able to locate such cables a lot easier than know being done.

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Guru
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#1

Re: rfid tags electrical conduits

12/15/2009 12:26 PM

Not that difficult to do, it's essentially the same as any "asset management" RFID application. But the problem with RFID tags is the reader. In a typical Asset Management app, you are using the RFID tags to track components leaving an area, where you have one fixed reader. There are hand-held readers, but how would you implement this? Every electrician gets a hand-held RFID read that costs upwards of $2500 each?

Let me know if you want to do this, I'd love the opportunity to take that contract!

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: rfid tags electrical conduits

12/15/2009 2:01 PM

I thought that the readers were less expensive today

Of course they would have to be able read even 20 ft at the ceiling.

I am not developing such a technology but was looking for some company that had already done so.I did speak to Brady labels and they have done something on a special case for some people but is not sold in the market place

Recently an app for the Iphone was shown whereby with the camera at a store the barcode is read on a product and the iphone puts out a table showing the product prices of all stores nearby that are competitive(ie uses GPS in phone and the camera and the Internet)

If the phones can do this and an simple receiver can be adapted to a droid or iphone or they eventually come out with an RFID reading capability or some type of product RFID reader must be out there cheaper than 2500 to perform this task

In any case its software driven and tats cant be to expensive to develop these days with all the database,Cad, and technology out there

I also was understanding in one of the Tech newsletters I get that GE or someone stated that they are or have came out with some new RFID tags that place large quantity orders of product at the 1 to 2 cents per tag pricing level.

Anyways appreciate your feedback and still hoping someone has such product out there already on market that could be put into specs for large building projects and convince the owner that it is a worthwhile requirement to be put in there building to make there futue maint and operations easier. ie someone would have to show the ROI is worthwhile to make this invetment,as you know contractors dont want to pout this technology to work unless it either saves them nmey or they have to per the spe.

Except with new safety rules coming down ,OSHA,NFPA,Fire Marshalls,etc maybe these entities may promulgate future requirements for such proiducts anyways?As builts have been a sore in the eye of many accidents and no one knows what has actually been installed when and where.

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Guru
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#3
In reply to #2

Re: rfid tags electrical conduits

12/16/2009 12:36 PM

Ahhh, bar codes are very different from RFID tags. In order for an RFID tag to be read at 20 feet it must be a UHF tag, which means it must have its own power source, i.e. a battery. The self-powered tags are readable at maybe 12" or so.

Bar codes are different. A laser hand held bar code scanner would be much more feasible at 20ft. Sick Sensor Intelligence makes one that I know of. You would need to create a database of codes and what they mean, then either set up a wireless ethernet to communicate with the scanners, or have a laptop that contains the db connected to the scanner. Some scanners can store a small db inside as well.

But as for the "scanner" app that is available for PDA and smart phones, this isn't really a scanner per se. It's a camera, it takes a picture of the bar code, transmits the picture to their web site which compares it to consumer products pre-loaded in their data base, and sends you back the answer as to what info is in that data base. By the way, they are ALSO tracking you with that, setting you up for targeted marketing of the products and product categories you scan. But that technology would not work for your application because 1) You would have to create your own web site with your data base in it, accessible to an outside line like an Phone, something most IT departments would never allow; and 2) 20 feet is too far for the kind of pixel resolution you would need

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#4

Re: RFID Tags for Electrical Conduits

12/17/2009 2:43 AM

Dear Thomas,

RFID can be employed for your application; but still(as JRaef as said) it has few limitations like less reading distance and high reader costs. If they are not so critical, a good product for this application can be developed.

We "Syrma Technology" are the leading producers of Passive RFID tags and RFID system providers from India. Kindly visit us for more informations.

regards,

Maharajan

muthu@syrmatech.com

www.syrmatech.com

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JRaef (2); Maharajan (1); thomas492 (1)

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