Methane Capture Technique

The sun causes global warming. Get rid of the sun and everything cools right down.

Rotting plant matter produces far far greater quantities of methane than cows do.

Rotting plant matter produces far far greater quantities of methane than cows do

Me thinks *far far* is not only exaggerated, but may just be flat out incorrect.

Rotting plant matter from Wetlands *greatest contributor* creates about 200 Tg a year, globally.

Livestock farts, in just the USA, create about 150 Tg a year

Heck, discounting the Bovine Butt Choir... and just looking at manure; manure, just in the US, produces about 20 times more methane then all US automobiles do.

Is rotting plant matter a significant contributor? Sure. But of all of mankind's activities, those that we have direct influence over, issues related to livestock (farts & manure) combined, sit at the top of the list of greenhouse gas producing activities; even above plant matter decay.

Once a pareto analysis is performed, it is only logical to focus activities on the heavy hitters... and it just so happens that cow farts top the list.

The article complains about methane being a cause for global warming, another article I read some time ago blames cows for methane release. My thought was what about feeding the cows something that would absorb the methane during digestion and could be recovered after it is passed.

Work is being done down here with regard to this problem (we are very big on agriculture in New Zealand). The worst solution was the methane-collecting bag attached to the cow (enough said about that one). The government also chipped in with their attempted and failed contribution of a "fart tax" (no I am not joking).

The best solution was to actually (genetically) engineer a new strain of low-methane producing grass that was better suited for the cows digestive system and greatly reduced the production of methane in the first place.

As for TCMTECH's comment he is right, it is really a moooot point.

(yes I was waiting all post to say that).

Bovine Butt Balloons!

"Anyone in a position to research it?" Sure! I'll cover the front, if you'll get the rear!

hmm. EPA has research on this.

http://www.epa.gov/methane/sources.html apparently livestock do produce quite a bit: 3rd largest source in USA and right up there with landfills.

Apparently some livestock management practices do reduce methane emissions. http://www.epa.gov/methane/rlep/faq.html

here's some diet research from Japan, vs amount of methane produced:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11375193?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_SingleItemSupl.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed

It's all about methanogenic bacteria that live in the cow's rumen - they break down hay or grass so the cow can get nutrients from it. So if the cow is grass fed, there's more methane produced (there's no other way to break down grass).

But there are methanotrophic bacteria (methane eaters) as well, (your marble sized object?). The wiki says their metabolic intermediate is formaldehyde, which doesn't sound so good, I wonder if they could co-exist in the rumen? Some methane may be broken down in the epithelium where there's a different bacterial community, this researcher is looking for methanotrophs in the rumen.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12180951

Maybe if the object of your invention, was a self-contained ecological niche for methanotrophic bacteria to live in and do their stuff (without leaking any formaldehyde or making the cows sick)... it could work.

oh, here's a wacky patent! to harvest methane from cows breath. On the outside.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6982161.html

The "second symbiont" or artificial symbiont idea is interesting, because theoretically it would improve the nutrition of the cows, allowing them to use the carbon now being wasted as methane byproduct.

The idea raises some questions. If methane-producers and methane-digesters both occur in nature, why is there a net release of methane from natural systems? Why have ruminants not evolved a "second symbiont" system themselves, which would confer an evolutionary advantage?

Those questions can be answered (a) by looking at natural systems and (b) by studying microbial community dynamics in artificial systems. There's no need to experiment on cows until and unless it's been demonstrated that it is completely safe and a benefit to them.

Best guess on the quick read, is that the methane-digesters are self-limiting because of the formaldehyde intermediate. As their communities build up, so does the waste produced - bacteria reproduce and die on short time scales, and a dead methane-digester is going to release some formaldehyde into the environment. I would expect this to be toxic to the methane-producer community on which they depend for their energy source, so they may tend to be self-limiting. That's also a good reason why they wouldn't already be part of the rumen ecosystem.

From an engineering standpoint, the question is, is it possible to create a self-contained environment suitable for methane-digesters, which would allow methane in, allow useable carbon out, and neutralize or prevent free formaldehyde from getting out into the rumen.

Which brings me back to the thought of a substance that could be used to absorb the unwanted waste, perhaps the marbles could be permeable to methane but lock in formaldehyde?

Drew

Right, why not.

Some kind of selective membrane system, is what I'd think likely. Synthetic membrane systems are biomimetic technologies - our own cells have an amazing system for selectively pumping in or out, or for confining toxins that can't be broken down. Exactly how it would be designed, or whether that would be too expensive for a large scale application I don't know. Membranes and materials science alone might do it - MEMS is an obvious higher tech approach to pump systems - more expensive I guess, but interesting to design from an engineer's pov.

You'd want to know everything about those methanotrophic bacteria - I'm only speculating on the basis of a quick read. Find out whether formaldehyde is the issue, or the only issue. Also think about the needs of the organism, and how that affects the design of a solution. The beastie breaks methane into formaldehyde - then uses formaldehyde to synthesize things it needs to live. Free formaldehyde may be toxic to it as well - so as the marble fills up with dead bacteria, they'd kill the living with their waste, and the 'marble niche' would have a short lifespan unless the internal system is self-renewing as well.

There might be other applications for a portable "niche" for methanotrophs - interesting project. If your marble is a luxury condo for methanotrophs, you could use it to capture different species in the wild - there's a lot of interest in them. So even if the gear was expensive, it could have important research applications - just a thought.

Methane is one of the greenhouse gases that is not well documented as to volumes released from natural vs human activity. One of the problems is the documentation of that methane that is released from the clathrate or hydrates of methane from the oceans. These are ice-like structures of methane that are formed under low temperatures and high pressures like the ocean floors. Most of the methane is discharged to the ocean from deep volcanic and rift sites within the oceans. These ice-like structures would normally float but are actually trapped in the sediment layers. If released in large volumes they could easily trigger major global warming (see clathrate gun hypothesis). Further these deposits are found in shallow ocean basins near continental shelves. These shallow deposits of hydrates can be and are released in unknown quantities. The recent discovery (2009) by Norwegians between suggest a major landslide (250 years ago) off their coast and near Greenland triggered a release of methane that is still happening. The search for plumes of methane is difficult as wind, oxidation, and ocean variability make them difficult to locate. But it is thought that pock-marked ocean sediments are one of the morphologies of the released methane from the hydrates. It is also possible that these ocean releases are CO2 rather than methane due to oxidation. One thing about the ocean methane vs methane from land surface tundra permafrost is the signature using carbon isotopes. These ocean methane (carbon} releases will have the same signature as fossil fuels.

So what the hell does this ramble have to do with the poor cow? I am really saying that the cow may release methane and in significant volumes. I am not sure if bison and other rudiment animals would not have done the same in the past. The ratio of cow methane to the atmosphere today may well be balanced in historical animal discharge of methane. maybe the population of rudiments has increased. For sure the grass and feed the cow eats would decompose as CO2 or CH4 discharge. This grass would decompose regardless if the cow eats it. The climate science does not have a good handle on where all the green house gases originates. We could easily underestimate the natural sources of greenhouse gases. These Clathrate deposits are known or very suspect in geological history as a cause of global warming and in extinctions. The "clathrate gun hypothesis" could make a great movie. We could stop all of man's discharges off GHG but still have a problem. There are lots of legitimate engineering solutions to global warming (trees, sulphur contrails, ocean mixing) and these solutions are available if we get too hot. Engineering the cows stomachs is a field for the biochemical engineers to address.

There is a ton of reading on global warming and a new text by Ray Pierrehumbert at University of Chicago that can be accessed on line. Real Science has some info on cattle as well.

In the meantime don't feed the cows any more beans.

I found a good article in NPR news today, it talks about different sources of methane release and projects to capture.

I always liked the idea of capture and use of the energy contained. Unfortunately, I am only a softmore student on my way to a mechanical engineering degree so I am not in a position to do any research. I was hoping to be the "idea fairy" and stimulate others to do the research.

Drew

An honorable effort as well. The world is full of naysayers, it needs more "Idea Fairies." Good luck in the continuation of your studies and never stop asking the questions, regardless of how seemingly absurd to others they may be.

If nothing else, you may prompt someone to look further into an issue they may have previously not known much about and, as a result, increased awareness in regards to its level of severity (e.g. cow farts)

You never know when your question may be the proverbial butterfly.

JavaHead

There's a lot more Methane than humanly possible to ever collect!

http://naturesglobalwarming.blogspot.com/