WIRELESS POWER MIRRORS

Did you know your caps lock was on? Kind of difficult to read your post. Many people regard all caps as virtual shouting.

OK, to the issue: what is worse, a battery compartment in each side mirror, or a few unobtrusive wires thereto? Either way, you are messing with the vintage value. Have you really thought this through?

Sorry about the caps, I am hard of hearing. LOL . Really I was typing with out looking at the monitor , sorry. The car is a Detomaso Pantera. It is not a car that who's value is necessarily effected by modifications from stock equipment. There are some purists that maintain all stock equipment, then there are people who maintain the basic stock appearance but make changes to systems that are out dated and have had more modern ( efficient and safety) modifications, and then there are those that have made major modifications facilitate performance for competitive driving (racing) or to modernize the looks of the car. Each group has it's share of followers and they are supported in the resale market.The side view mirrors were installed by the Lincoln mercury dealers that retailed the cars in the USA. There is no standard choice. You will find numerrous mirrors installed by the dealers apparently based on what was availible to the. Everything that I have removed or changed I have retained so the car can be returned to original if the future owner chooses. I am modifying my car for competition and have installed Vitaloni Racing mirrors. These are mirrors that came as original manufacturers equipment on many exotic imports ( Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini, Porsche Etc. They make Vitaloni power mirrors (the baby turbo model is available as a power mirror) Vitaloni is out of business. You can buy new old stock mirrors for between $25.00 and $150.00 a pair. A pair of the same mirrors in the power version is currently listed on e-bay for $1000.00. I have several cases of Vitaloni mirrors and I have found a source for the motorised mechanism for controlling the mirror. It requires 4 wires and a ground to wire each mirror to a controller switch.I was looking for a solution that would allow me to control the mirrors and provide the dc voltage to the mirror motors with out having wires run through an additional hole in the door and wiring a controller switch in the dash. That's why I am looking for a wireless solution. I appreciate your concern for the question of having a negative effect on the value but that is not the area of expertise I need help with. You may have noticed this question was not listed in the automotive section. I don't want to appear to be ungrateful but this is a website for answers to technical problems and their solutions, not business or economics.

Thanks,

Boyd

Boyd, please note that a major component in technical problems and thier solutions is in fact business and economics.

When as engineers we are charged with the design of engineering artifacts involving many times massive amounts of capital and potentially large numbers of jobs, it's not just about the technical side of the enterprise.

You are certainly correct, but in this particular case I am looking for a technical solution to a project that involves my personal sports car that I am attempting to modify to my particular needs. I did not ask for nor do i need advice concerning the potential depreciation my car may suffer as a result of this modification. In fact that is the reason I am seeking a wireless solution. This will allow me to reap the benefit of power mirrors with out drilling any additional holes which would have a detrimental effect on the value. I have recieved two responses and neither one has offered any technical advice or solutions to my problem. I would appreciate if someone would offer a response that includes a suggested solution to the actual problem posed.

Respectfully,

Hugh casey

Touching a astronomical telescope, such as when focusing, causes the scope to shake. Scope builders and users often install motorized focusers so they can adjust the image without touching the instrument. Stepper motors are the most popular drives for these systems.

Blue-tooth interfaces are now popping up so as to liberate the user from the wires often associated with that application. You might want to explore the many telescope building groups at Yahoo Groups where there are a vast number of creative people with technical skills in this domain.

Another viable resource that is also inexpensive is the 2 channel RC environment. I recently saw an RC helicopter complete with transmitter with remarkable performance for under $25 at Radio Shack and at Pier One. If not too much power is needed, the servos used might be a better alternative to steppers.

L.J.

Have some respect, dude, for the people responding to you.

Being a smartass will get you run off this website in a hurry.

Kill the attitude, man.

You are going to have major problems with the mirror casing, fitting control and driver circuits, battery, charging circuit and induction coil inside. If you really want a charging arrangement with the primary of a power transformer outside and the secondary inside the casing, that is going to be pretty inefficient as well. Although all the mechanics and electronics you require are available, I'm sure you are going to have to design and manufacture the mirror housing to accommodate it all.

...Not to mention that the current housing is probably metal, as is the reflecting surface of the mirror itself, so it will be difficult if not impossible to get charging and control signals into the unit.

Thank you for you input. I should have mentioned that the mirror housings are plastic not metal and I have sourced the actual motors and mechanism from power mirrors that easily fit the housing and will operate ate the mirror movement as requires. They are 12 volt and require very low amperage to operate. My idea for the wireless control doesn't require a battery and signal receiver be located in the mirror housing .If I could accomdate the wireless receiver in the mirror housing then I really wouldn't need a separate power source. I could run a 12 volt hot lead into the housing with out drilling another hole and ground the motors to the mirror mounting bolts which would ground to the door. The mirror controls require 4 leads so keeping the receiver in the housing would eliminate the need to drill another hole to accomodate the four control leads. It would also simplfy the control switch by not requiring it to be wired to the mirrors but just to a 12 volt hot lead and it could be grounded to the chassis. So although stepper motors or rc servos are a good idea they are not neccesary because I already have the motors and mechanism that comes form power mirror manufacturer and will fit my housing and mate to my mirror surfaces. I just need a way to control the voltage to the four leads going to the mirror motors on each side (driver and passenger.) Each mirror has two motors with four leads (two for each motor) two to control horzontial movement and two to control vertical movement. The left and right mirrors can both use the same controller by switching the power supply so that it can only control one side at a time. Because of the popularity and availability of blue tooth I was thinking that something that incorporates Blue tooth or RF would be both small enough and inexpensive.

I don't have the expertise in either of these technologies to implement a solution that incorporates them.

Thanks again for your suggestions.

A wise Oriental philosopher is quoted as having said:

"It's our attachments that keep us stuck"

You went and purchased motors using incorrect assumptions based on a design that is not even close to being completely thought out.

Then, instead of allowing others to contribute viable alternatives, you reject suggestions based on our experience, experience you obviously do not have.

Then you insist that we give you solutions based on your mistake.

You are bogged down fiddling with minutia that is irrelevant at the expense of a basic design that is flawed and demands rethinking.

I can't help you.

L.J.

LJ's suggestion of the circuitry from an RC 'chopper, possibly with 4 additional transistors to carry the heavier current, should do the job.

I can see you are going to end up frustrated that nobody wants to help you, so let us go back to basics. You have in each mirror two motors which are driven by direct current, via a controller. In normal circumstances the current is supplied from the vehicle battery, and the controller is a switch complex near the driver's or passenger's hand. I think you are pursuing an idea that Bluetooth transmitters have sufficient power to drive a motor at a distance. Sorry, they do not. Even if that were the case (with a transmitter power many orders of magnitude higher), the output of a Bluetooth transmitter is a radio-frequency alternating current, which would need to be rectified to drive a DC motor. Then there is the small problem of how one motor rather than the other knows it is being driven. You still need a receiver. What the transmitter can be used for is to transmit a control signal which is picked up by the Bluetooth receiver. The output of the receiver can be used to control a DC source for the benefit of any number of motors. You still need a DC source.

I don't know what Laughing jaguar is laughing about. I think he woke up on the wrong side of the tree. I didn't reject his idea and I didn't make a mistake buying the power mirror motors. I have taken apart numerous power mirrors and every one I looked at used the same basic design . I found the motors and the mechanism to move the mirrors as well as the mounting plate to attach to the back of the mirror at a surplus electronics vendor for three dollars a piece. Why reinvent the wheel . I was fortunate to find these which fit the mirror housing I have and will work if hard wired. I am just looking for a way to eliminate installing a wiring harness. I think the idea of using some radio control components from a hobby shop is the best alternative for me to come close to my goal . Which is to come up with a relatively simple and inexpensive solution. I have checked some hobby supply vendors and the offer a variety of servos and micro switches at very low prices. I don't need anything with any power. I only need to be able to control the flow of electricity to the motors with precision.The power mirror motors supply more then enough power. I can use micro switches that are servo controlled and will easily fit the available space to modulate the voltage to to the two motors that move the mirror face. The servo controllers allow for precise control of the mirror movement and are available in sufficient frequencies to easily accommodate all four motors with out having to share a frequency. Due to the increase in popularity of RC hobby's and the miniaturization of the RC components it should not be to difficult to fabricate two small boards with servo controlled micro switches and dissect a controller transmitter to fabricate a small transmitter switch.

Thanks for your help.

Since it appears (as I understand so far) that you will in fact have at least one wire with dc voltage going into the housing...how about looking into the possibility of doing something like running the signals over the DC line? Look into how they do BPL which is basically running digital signals over power lines. Ham radio operators also use a similar technique to run control signals and power to rotators over RF feed lines. A few filters and you are all set! :-)

Before you venture off too far into the control and RF issues, the bigger stumbling block is the "inductive charging" issue. Inductive charging has a VERY limited distance of transmission. 5mm is the longest distance I have ever seen (commercially available) and even that is expensive (although that's a relative term).

If that 5mm limitation is acceptable for you, then I would forgo the bluetooth aspect because if you can get that close, you can transmit data across that same gap. Balluff, a German sensor manufacturer, makes a readily available wireless power and data transmission system for connecting and powering sensors on moving equipment. It's limited to 12W of power transfer so you would probably have to have a battery to power your motors but that could power your battery charger. You can then transmit the 4 directional commands with the same device.

Balluff wireless power and data transmitter

When you get this developed, contact the auto manufacturers. They will certainly be interested in stealing the idea for implementation into future models.

You have given yourself a very challenging concept. Inductive coupling would require you to create an AC type signal, have coupled coils and so on. The coupling through sheet metal (since you don't want to have holes) will create significant losses and the instantaneous power source will not be sufficient to drive the mirror motors that you have selected. Thus you will also require apower storage device.

The other challenge is the additional weight that is to be carried on the door panel from the motors and mechanism you intend to include. The examples that I've seen have sheetmetal fatigue and the whole door panel then becomes destroyed.

If you're absolutely dead set against extra holes, then with the mirror removed, drill throught he centre of one of the attachement bolts and thread the wires through there. The Mabuchi motors that are in most mirror control devices around the world only draw around 50mA (with 500mA at fully stalled) so very fine wires can be used. The voltage drop will be a little high, but those motors are specked to run as low as 7 Volt.

Enjoy the challenge.

Thank you for your advice. I have decided against trying to use a battery and an iductive coil to charge it. Your idea of drilling through the mounting bolt and running the wires through the center is a good idea.

Thanks