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Anonymous Poster

suggest any welding process and welding rod

03/06/2010 1:30 AM

To all forum members,

Please suggest any welding process and welding rod (or welding rod composition) for the material details attched here with, we have used various quality of welding rods but not getting any results, (NB; its a Door of Hydro dam some 100-130 years old composition)

Thanking you,

Yours truly,

Chetan

Material properties:

C=1.80, Si=1.88, Mn=0.408, P=0.653, C=0.288, Cr=0.0711, Mn=0.0227, Ni=0.691, Al=0.0028, Co=0.0502, Cu=0.0250, Nb=0.0069, Ti=0.0916, V=0.105, w=0.156, Pb=0.0687, Sn=0.0051, Mg= 0.00050, As=0.821, Zr=0.0021, Bi=0.0098, Ce= 0.0574, Sb=0.0558, Se=0.0020, B=0.0156, Zn=0.0540, La=0.0300, N=0.0156, Fe=94.0

Average Hardness=77.33 HRB, 141.61 BHN

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Anonymous Poster
#1

Re: suggest any welding process and welding rod

03/06/2010 2:14 AM

Is it a cast iron?

The carbon is on border line. The results seem to be spectro?

I am finding the trace and unwanted elements a bit too high (P=0.653, As=0.821)

Did you try any of the high nickel (cast iron) Electrodes?

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#2

Re: suggest any welding process and welding rod

03/06/2010 2:58 AM

Boy, that's one hell of an alloy. Maybe the As is poisoning the whole process. Perhaps you need to find some welding rod specs from 100-130 years ago. If any history majors are reading this....

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Associate

Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 47
#3

Re: suggest any welding process and welding rod

03/06/2010 3:07 AM

Who made the dam doors (or gates) 130 years ago ?? Are they cast or welded ??

How did you obtain the metal analysis that you posted ??

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Anonymous Poster
#4
In reply to #3

Re: suggest any welding process and welding rod

03/06/2010 7:05 AM

Well sir,

We have analysed all that matulargy with help of spectro machine,

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Anonymous Poster
#5
In reply to #3

Re: suggest any welding process and welding rod

03/06/2010 7:06 AM

and that is the casted door

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Anonymous Poster
#6

Re: suggest any welding process and welding rod

03/06/2010 9:02 AM

BTW : could not see another poison

Where is S ?

P = cold shortness

S = Hot shortness

I am not much sure about the weldability, and anyway we don't prefer welding on these unless it is just cosmetic. Despite all the claims , we have never been much convinced, at least for load taking parts.

Ever thought about some mechanical fastening to repair?

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Anonymous Poster
#7

Re: suggest any welding process and welding rod

03/06/2010 9:08 AM

Why don't you write to a welding company?

Try ESAB or Lincoln Electric, they may be able to advice you.

But I feel it is not the electrode - the process will be complicated -

Pre heat temperature, may be you have to hold it for some time,

Welding method - continuous, intermittent,...

Hot Peening most likely will be mandatory for cast iron family.

Cooling down rate of the HAZ

PWHT ...

All will play critical role, you may have to go for a full fledged WPS/PQR fo it.

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Anonymous Poster
#13
In reply to #7

Re: suggest any welding process and welding rod

03/07/2010 6:29 AM

Thank you for suggetion fro all of you, secondly we have used defrent types of rod from mostly all welding rod manufacturers in india, and we have also tryed 92% Nickel rod as well but no positive results emerged, there is a huge crack there..,,,,

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Anonymous Poster
#14
In reply to #13

Re: suggest any welding process and welding rod

03/07/2010 9:05 PM

Did you consider replacing the gate? after all it is 130 years old, may be already overshot it's designed life.

Welding on stressed component (cast / wrought Iron) may not be advisable, since these will be under a bit of tensile when your dam is full.

With all the weldings whether successful or not, finally you will be keeping your fingers crossed. A weldable (steel) is a different ball game but irons, whether cast or wrought, the property at tha HAZ is much lower.

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#8

Re: suggest any welding process and welding rod

03/06/2010 11:51 AM

So now we "discovered" that this is a cast sluice gate that needs to be welded and you find welding problematic.

In "cast" there is Cast Iron which is generally hard and brittle and is not very weldable. Welding it more or less successfully requires expertise and much experience. But most cast iron types lend themselves reasonably well to brazing, with bronze etc. In brazing, however, pre-heating is essential and as you apparently have a large mass of metal, this may present a real problem.

Then there is Cast Malleable Steel. This material is (or should be) easily weldable, provided one has the right electrodes and welder.

What do you need to weld there... is there a hole or a crack or what?? What is the nature of your repair?? Also, another consultant above gave you a very good suggestion... consult a well known welding electrode company.

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#9

Re: suggest any welding process and welding rod

03/06/2010 4:47 PM

Just to stick my nose in here a little. For old stuff, use old techniques. Look up Railroad Welding. It was a technique where the item was enclosed in a dam holding all sorts of good stuff, filler material and consumables, like magnesium filings or something. Then it was touched off and all hell broke loose. After the fireworks, the item was allowed to cool properly and then I guess the weld was dressed down for appearance. Good times.

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Anonymous Poster
#10
In reply to #9

Re: suggest any welding process and welding rod

03/07/2010 12:44 AM

Explosion Welding?

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: suggest any welding process and welding rod

03/07/2010 1:40 AM

From what I was told, I don't think it was explosion welding, just one helluva fire. When some big casting or forging would break, like a connecting rod on a locomotive, they would take the broken part and encase it in refractory material. Fill the area inside with filler metal and something just this side of black powder. Ever done an old time tube repair with the metal pan with the stuff you lite inside? It would melt the rubber on the other side right to the tube, vulcanize it right there, yessir. Fun, too. Same sorta process with this weld. Like a furnace weld outside of the furnace. I learned a lot from the blacksmith that worked with me in a machine/fab shop a long time ago. Good times. My ears still ring. I betcha the electric hammer is still there.

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#12

Re: suggest any welding process and welding rod

03/07/2010 1:45 AM

Maybe Thermite (sometimes spelled Thermit) might work? I don't know, nor am I sure if that and explosion welding are the same thing.

If the original door is a casting, and no foundries these days can reproduce it, it may need to be redesigned as a weldment.

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