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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dominican Republic
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Soft Start for Scroll Compressors

03/25/2010 12:36 PM

In HVAC aplications , looking for power saving , can the scroll compressors on condenser units be hooked up or connected to soft starter devices to reduce peaks on start ????.

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#1

Re: Soft start for scroll compressors

03/25/2010 1:04 PM

Yes they will reduce peak starting current. But that will not save you any energy. It will reduce the wear and tear on the compressor and help to prevent voltage drops during starting, but beyond that, no direct electrical savings will be achieved.

Peak Demand Charges in the form of penalty assessments on your total bill are often levied on large commercial and industrial clients by most utilities based on what is called a "Sliding Demand Window", usually 15, 20 or 30 minutes. So any specific peak of a duration shorter than that window has virtually no effect on the Demand Charge penalties.

I see you are in the Dominican Republic however. In some smaller countries with limited generation capacity, the utilities sometimes have what are called "Ratcheting Instantaneous Demand" metering. If your does, then check with them as to whether or not a reduction in current alone will reduce those penalties. Often times those types of meters measure kVA demand, which might be affected by a starting peak. But if they measure peak kW demand, starting current has very little effect because when starting an AC cage motor, the current is high partly because the power factor is very low at first.

Bottom line; there are plenty of good reasons to use soft starters, but energy savings is not one of them.

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#3
In reply to #1

Re: Soft start for scroll compressors

03/25/2010 5:28 PM

Good answer!

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#5
In reply to #1

Re: Soft start for scroll compressors

03/26/2010 7:25 AM

Also a good answer according my opinion.

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#2

Re: Soft start for scroll compressors

03/25/2010 1:16 PM

That's one question I can't answer for sure, my experience would indicate that that would be a possibility. If you're dealing with multiple machines a more economical and potentially more practical solution would be to link them through a logic controller.

Their cheap relatively easy to program and would be highly effective in reducing peak demand. You could easily program a time delay to prevent machines from starting simultaneously. Obviously this would substantially reduce peak demand.

Additionally they could easily be programmed for load shedding, for example preventing one machine from starting until the temperature has been satisfied in another zone. Of course there be slightly more temperature variations but usually this can be held to an acceptable level.

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#4

Re: Soft Start for Scroll Compressors

03/26/2010 12:10 AM

I thougt a scroll compressor uses a lot less starting current than a piston type?

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#6

Re: Soft Start for Scroll Compressors

03/26/2010 8:23 AM

The Last One I was involved with came with soft starts on both compressors included in the package. It was a McQuay chiller. The only problem it gave us was the self destruct caused by fan blades breaking and flying through the condenser. I figure there's a hole in the ozone layer over West Virginia that should be named " The McQuay Hole".

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#7

Re: Soft Start for Scroll Compressors

03/26/2010 10:31 AM

I believe you could learn a lot of valuable info from the following link. It is an in depth study of energy consumption and savings for commercial Hvac systems. They cover stem to stern in this lengthly pdf file such as; savings, peak usage and etc.

Click Here.

Energy Consumption Characteristics of

Commercial Building HVAC Systems

Volume III: Energy Savings Potential

It was put out by TIAX LLC a few years back with the help of the following experts;

 J. Brodrick (DOE)

 L. Burgett (Trane)

 K. Hickman (York)

 G. Hourahan (ARI)

 B. Hunn (ASHRAE)

 S. Nadel (ACEEE)

 C. Nasseri (DOE)

Wishing you the best.

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Soft Start for Scroll Compressors

04/09/2010 8:12 AM

Hi Guys .

There was a misunderstanding or a bad explanation from my side . I was talking about costs savings more then energy saving . Reducing the peaks on fans and compressors starting will reduce the power peaks and that result you can look it on the Bill .

That what I was trying to say .

I'm Right ??????

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Soft Start for Scroll Compressors

04/09/2010 2:32 PM

You're right to some degree. Most peak readings that are used on the bill are computed on a 15 minute window, which averages a good bit of the sudden peaks that only last a few seconds. A lot depends on what percentage of total load is made up by the device you are wondering about, and how often this device starts during a normal day. It does make a difference on equipment life, including the distribution system. Sorry if this muddies the water even more.

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