HV Termite Terminator Power Supply Design Approach?

some battery operated gas lighters use a high voltage coil assembly.

you could use a radiant gas plauqe heater uses a high voltage igniter

you can also get a bug repeler that uses high frequencies

http://www.google.co.uk/products?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-gb:IE-SearchBox&resnum=0&q=electronic+insect+repeller&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=2_XIS9bvLIbu0gTjj8nHDA&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CB4QrQQwAA

http://www.electronicpestrepeller.com/electronic_insect_repellent.htm

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1272/is_2695_131/ai_99849654/

http://www.stoppinbugs.com/termiteproblem.htm

http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7440.html

Appreciate the comments and links, Peter. Do those ultrasonic bug repllers really work? I took one apart many years ago. Never did a controlled study to determine if the bugs ran fast toward or away from the thing. I don't know much about piezo igniters; something to investigate. Bill

No

Car ignition coils are cheap & readily available "pre-owned". Haven't checked out the actual voltage, but I used to have fun with these when I was a kid. Certainly packs quite a punch.

ignition coils http://auto.howstuffworks.com/ignition-system3.htm

John, I'll crank out some numbers to see if I can obtain the switching rate I'm looking for. Maybe a good Bosch coil would work nicely. Back in the early 70's I designed and sold several capacitor discharge (CD) units driven by a UJT transistor to provide a continuous spark. The unit was used by hobbyists to ignite the burner of their steam generators for steam car projects. They had used a dc motor to drive a distributor to fire an ignition coil continuously; very primitive. Back then the quality of the ignition coil wasn't important. My college thesis was titled, "Using a UJT Transistor for a Staircase Generator." A 2N2646 UJT is embedded in my head. I've worked with flybacks, replacing them in televisions. Also restored a few primitive ones for early televisions. Also designed many flyback switch mode power supplies, but nothing of the voltages I'm now interested in. If an ignition coil does the job, then it will be great: possibly less hv insulation problems.

Anyone have a recommendation for an ignition which produces high voltages?

You can get the old style ignition coils at a Car parts store or eBay and also the wire rated at least 80KV and the connector to the ignition coil and use RTV to pot the HV. I am working on an electric fence and later on a Jacob's Ladder.

Good luck on your projects. Problem with the standard ignition coil is repetition rate; I'm looking for 60KHz. I believe there are ferrite ignition coils most likely would operate at much higher frequencies. Unfortunately, ignition coils for sale are reference only to a specific car they'll operate in. Haven't seen a coil advertised as also using ferrite material.

If you wanted to play around a bit anyway, there're some ideas here.

Thanks John, I've looked around that website several times before. But a closer look today at the Questions and Comments provided interesting info about a pencil ignition coil; didn't no such thing existed. It's an ignition coil that literally attaches to the spark plug, now how cool is that! It apparently uses ferrite material and I might acquire one of these ignition coils for evaluation. Also stated it operates at higher frequencies. If nothing else, it would make a compact high voltage source. Bill

I do not know about new cars, but older models were 50,000 volts more or less.

PEbob

Termites, high voltage and rotting wood do not sound like a good combination to me. I'd go with an exterminator that'll put termite traps in the ground outside your house. Of course you'll need a good carpenter to both repair your damage and to find the termite's water source. No termite or other insect can build a nest in your home without a water source, no matter how much tasty wood is available.

Your system can work perfectly. I.e. if your voltage is high enough and produces sparks as powerful that they can burn down the house. You will have rodent- and termite - free ashes left.

Verrrry funny! However, I doubt it will really help.

The last Santa Barbara fire of June last year came up to the driveway on a windy, Thursday evening. And living on a 300 foot, curved driveway made me realize that no fire truck is going to save my house; a truck could easily be trapped in a fire. If I don't manage to burn the house down myself, I know eventually a wildfire will anyway <g>. I don't need anymore "free" ash, got plenty left over from several wildfires :).

I feel with you and will include you my prayers under section 1230 par. ^6B22 (= fire section - hell related). And do termites stay in ashes?

Hi BILLR,

Do you have a link to the DIY HV handheld device? I build/construct many things myself and this would be of interest to me.

Mike

I've looked at a few patents. Don't have any links to a device made for terminating termites.

OK, In the first place, there is no evidence at all that this will have any effect on the termites in wood. There are many companies online that sell gimmicks that do not work. ll they are concerned about is if your money works..

Those ultrasonic things are frauds, they do not work.

There is a sure fire way.

2 blocks, block A and Block B, place temite on block A, crush with block B, repeat as needed....

Start looking for the nest, I spent several years with pest exterminator trying to get rid of termites, and one day I had employees shift a wood pile and under that I found a nest about three feet deep so after I opened it up it was filled with some bad poison. Problem solved, lesson is you can spend a lot of money treating the perimeter but find the source and the problem is solved.

I have been successful in ridding of termites with the following product.

Go to Lowes or Home Depot and buy a bag of FIRE ANT exterminator.

Whittle a twenty-four inch piece of broom handle to a point on one end, push it into the ground every 6 to 12 inches apart and pour a tablespoon of fire ant repellent into each hole Repeat every 3 years. Push the hole 6 to 12 inches deep or whatever depth you can push

PEbob

When I was a teenager, many years ago, we had an electric rod that we pushed into the ground to cause nighy-crawlers to come to the surface, and used flashlights to catch the nightcrawlers for fishing bait. It worked best after a rain.

I do not know the voltage. Try the internet or ebay

PEbob

I use a Leyden Static Generator to demonstrate that all matter is composed of electrons for my science class. The generator, while not "hand-held," produces an arc that is well within the parameters that you are discussing. Funny thing is, when a sheet of paper (celulose, the same as wood) is placed between the electrodes, the paper schorches. If it is left for a few seconds, it bursts into flames.

I recommend that you listen to the author who talked about converting you house to a pile of ashes, and hire an exterminator. If you are successful in gernerating an arc of sufficient voltage, the cure may be worse than the termites.

Fire ant poison sounds interesting, but how are you going to control the polution plume? The poison will leach into the ground water supply, eventually.

The commercial hv Electro-Gun is used successfully to exterminate termites. Ecola Exterminators has been a big user of this methodology for decades. Of course, common sense dictates that the Electro-Gun be continuously moving over the surface and not held stationary in one place. The other important thing is to use a low energy system for safety and minimizing fire hazards. Also I feel a system that's capable of storing energy after it's turned off is also undesirable.

I've been looking at the flyback and ignition coils. Modified flybacks tend to be a one-type modified device, and if it's destroyed it's back to square one modifying a different one. Ignition coils don't meet the minimum operating frequency and it's questionable if a 100kv can be produced from a single coil. If a coil is wound from scratch, then it's much easier to make a like-kind, replacement. I've got a lot of ferrite cores and bobbins, so I could go in that direction ... but high voltage insulation problems would most likely be a problem if not encapsulated.

I'm now leaning towards a solid state driven, resonant Tesla coil systems. I believe I can control the arc energy and high voltage levels. Now if I can achieve the resonant frequency with the natural LC elements of a wound secondary coil, then I'll be in business. The mechanical aspect ratio of a Tesla system would appear to be more appropriate for a hv gun-type device. That's my thoughts for now. Patents are not specific as to all the hv generation topology components used, but I'd guess from the solid state circuit components shown in patents, it appears they use a ferrite material for the transformer. Winding and insulating the high voltage secondary for a ferrite transformer is highly process oriented,maybe too difficult for the home experimenter. Winding a linear coil on a long tube seems more appealing. There are available software programs to aid in defining the resonance of such coil configurations.

We have the flying drywood type termites and they require little moisture, less common than the subterranean termites. Drywood termites are more common to the Southwestern states.

A very good, and non-toxic temiticide was developed by a guy named Bud Dietrich who sold the rights off and retired...it's called Bora-Care www.boracaretermitecontrol.com

Or, you can make your own. Bud made the initial batches with plain 20 Mule Team Borax mixed into a stock-pot of glycol...antifreeze. Stir and add the Borax till the solution becomes saturated, then spray the mix onto all exposed wood surfaces. You can sprinkle the borax around your foundation inside and out as well. The borax kills a gut microbe in the termite and they literally starve to death, but they will be tracking all the borax back to the queen, so end of colony. The borax is also effective against cockroaches, and a big nemesis for my dogs, fleas. I sprinkle it into the carpet and down into furniture cushions and that was the end of the flea problems with no toxic crap used on me or the dogs. It will also kill a lot of the fungi that cause wood rot and other maladies.

Granted, it's not as fun as zapping the little bastards, but it has a higher efficacy. Why not do both; one for effect and one for fun.

I have a gallon of Bora-Care on the shelf in the garage. I've used it in the past for spot treatments. It has the consistency of warm honey and I dilute it with water and inject it into newly discovered kick-out holes made by the termites. The injector I use is from an Inkjet ink cartridge refill kit. The label on the Bora-Care container I have and the website you provided doesn't give any application/dilution info. If I dilute Bora-Care with water it eventually produces small crystals and gums up the injector, so any leftover, diluted Bora-Care solution needs to be dumped. Does anyone know the proper dilution and the injection/spray device used to apply Bora-Care? Problem with making something with glycol is cats; they can lick it up and die. Is it useful to simply spread dry Borax powder under the house? I have a sub-floor (house is built on a slope, and access is easy for about half the space, and a little more difficult for the other half of the space). Seems that spraying the Bora-Care underneath the upper, wooden deck would be OK; cats can't access it. There are several 8"x12" deck beams I'd certainly like to protect. Bora-Care seems most useful for exposed wood. I know I need a better injection device for spot treatments of areas where there is wallboard material.

Another thing used successfully for fleas is diatomaceous earth. Same stufff used in pool filters. It's like spreading flower and the fleas choke on the stuff and die. Good for sprinkling on carpets. We've used it for decades and it works fine. It will clog up a vacuum cleaner if too much is used (as my wife experienced recently).

I work in a factory which uses diatomateous earth in a wastewater process. The MSDS for that material says that breathing it is a definite no-no. The reason it kills is this - the "dirt" is actually sharp-edged particles that cut the lining of a creature's lungs until they bleed out inside. That's the reason it is used for clumping waste in wastewater. I would definitely not use it in my home, or anywhere else.

Yes, borax sprinkled about will work fine. All these little critters are neat-freaks and will clean the borax powder off themselves. and they will starve. True for cockroaches as well. Sprinkle it under kitchen cabinets and other likely pathways. This worked great for keeping "Palmetto Bugs" out of the house when I lived in Florida.

Also, the Glycol is only a carrier, and it will evaporate and pose no more of a threat to pets or humans than what maladies would otherwise occur if you were to eat a 4x4 post. Borax is a salt, Sodium Octoborate, and is safe enough to dump into your clothes washer.

I lived in Florida for six years when I was a kid; truly bug country. The grasshoppers were huge and scary looking things. Thanks for the info on the Borax. Thinking about it, I might have a large container of Borax somewhere in the garage that was labeled for flea use. The diatomaceous earth seemed to work better for the fleas in the rugs. There once was a flea extermination company years ago that used there secret formula: turned out to be diatomaceous earth. No warnings on the packages of diatom material.

Customized Tesla Coil will give you plenty of Volts with low amps =)

Biggest obstacle with High Voltage as a method is that the more surface area exposed to the high voltage the lesser the effects. If the termite was in a direct series connection with high voltage, no doubt they would smoke. If exposed to a small section of wood they might run. If exposed to a large wooden beam, the electron displacement would be more even that the termites probably wouldnt even notice as for they would follow the same physics as birds on a power line. As long as they have no direct reference to ground they are fine. You could send Milions of Volts at these guys and as long as the wood reference distributes it evenly they wouldnt notice the difference.

The theory supposedly held from research is if the termites are in the vicinity of the application of high voltage that it upsets their digestive system and eventually die within a week of exposure. I'm not sure I'm a 100% believer in the theory. I fully understand your point of view/observation. Any critter that can live off of wood has to have a strong constitution. And whether or not an electrical tingle will do it in is anyone's guess, in my opinion. I believe in the 1980's UC Berkeley did some study on the affects of hv on termites. Briefly read some of the study many years ago, but can't recall much now.

You know what I tell my wife when we see a lot of birds perched, equally spaced on a power line ... I say the birds are getting recharged . She laughs, I smile.

Say you have it, How does this works? As other poster said it will be harmless in the vicinity. Field influence to a degree that will effect the buggers will be limited to few inches, if that much at 50 0r 60 Hz. If the wood is wet, the only thing that will smoke is you power supply.Or you will have to convince them to come over and taste the wire, maybe that the way? is there anything else beside wood that they like?, that you can dip your HV wires in? or to create a smoke or odor of a tasty wood?

I have no suggestions, Just curiosity.

Wangito.

My thought is to use a Unitrode (now TI) pulse width modulation chip and use it in the current feedback mode to prevent a smoking, hv power supply. The goal is to use 60KHz or higher, 50/60Hz is too lethal as a switching frequency. However, the commercial hv guns modulate the 60KHz with a lower frequency, such as 60Hz. The key is to use the 60KHz+ switching frequency so to be less lethal. Wood inside the house is not wet. I haven't hung buckets of termite "ice cream" poison around the house, but maybe that's the way to go. If I get to sit down with a termite for a chat I'll ask for its favorite meal <g>. It's probably worth the research on the Internet, "favorite meals of termites." There's bait stuff for subterranean termites, but I haven't seen anything for drywood termites. Now there's a potential business!

The probable reason the drywood tends to work along the inside surface is because they live, eat and poop in the wood. They make small kick-out holes to remove the poop which are tiny pellets. If these termites lived deeper into the wood they would have to have poop brigades ... too much work.

High Voltage: Wood is known as a relative good electrical isolator, so is dry skin. Installers of Neon Signs use High Voltage, limited current transformers to power the neon or argon filled gas tubes.

Some modern types come with high frequent transformers. (saves space and weight)

High voltage runs on the outside, (a different story) even on their skin. Where do termites live? Who calls them for an outside walk on the wood to feel some electricity running over them, instead of through them? The only thing that will happen, is their hair coming straight up like... I forgot the name.

(V Diesel?) The last neon sign I saw falling down was one, because the wooden frame was eaten by termites with a nest in the High Voltage transformer. I love this forum - spills no paper.

The drywood termites I've observed tend to work close to the surface of wood. They love plywood, yum yum. The pros sometimes shoot pellets into the wood for penetration. Theory is if the pellet doesn't kill the termite, hopefully the hv will . I like this forum, too.

Hello, BILLR. Nice to meet ya.

Lots of interested folks here, with a number of observations and suggestions.

A number of posters have asked 'How does it work?" A commercial manufacturer of the equipment has a website http://www.etex-ltd.com/ that explains a lot of the general questions asked here.

Unfortunately, there does not appear to be an answer to your question. I guess they would rather sell you one than show you how to build one.

May your day be bug-free!

Yes, the manufacturer of the Electro-Gun keeps tight control over their product. You have to be a fully certified and licensed exterminator to acquire an Elecro-Gun. If I could buy one, I wouldn't hesitate for a moment and purchase the dang thing. I really have better things to do with my time than build one. But having the experience of designing switch mode power supplies and magnetics, I could easily build one.

This forum is great and I've actually thought of a significant improvement last night to the hv treatment of termites. I think it's time to see a patent attorney. So I'm kind of excited, and then again not. Didn't think my forte would turn to termites, LOL.

One possibility might be to use a compact fluorescent bulb power supply. the 150 watt equivalent ones actually transfer 23 watts of power and they run at 60 KHz. I'm not sure how to wire it, but I remember seeing a Tesla coil powered by a CF supply on a how-to web site.

Hi, I've searched the Internet with regards to the fluorescent power supply. I'd like to actually see one. Maybe Home Depot sells the assemblies? Wonder if the electronic version of the ballast is available as a replacement component; something to look into. Might be too "process intensive" for the home-builder to make a fluorescent-similar supply. I'd like to avoid the insulation/encapsulation problems; such as the hv winding and insulating of a flyback secondary. Wish some of the other approaches were as easy as wiring up an ignition coil and provided 60KHz. The Tesla is looking less attractive because of the much higher operating frequencies; probably end up with 200KHz+ resonance. I'll have to reverse engineer a fluorescent supply.

I've decided to work with the MSD Blaster 3 ignition coil. Although it does not meet the desired operating frequency, it will work fine for experimental termite termination purposes. The tower of the coil is unique and should provide an adequate creepage distance for running it to high voltage extremes; designed for 45kV operation. This coil gives me a head start. Ignition coil wire and connectors are easy to obtain. If I destroy it, no problem finding another one. I ordered mine on eBay.

If your interested researching the current technology of hv termite zappers, go to Google Patents and check out these four patents: 4,223,468 ... 4,366,644 ... 4,782,623 ... 5,210,719.

Dear BILLR, Gosh I am amazed at the amount of feedback received on the subject. I am a newbie and have been on lookout for a MW based termite eradicator for some time. Could you help with this project from start. We have terrible termite problem which predominantly are in plywood/board based furniture and using chemicals is not working out. I have at my disposal couple of serviceable but MW ovens, and would like to use parts from the same. Thanks GS Khurana